39 | Nathaniel J. Gillis | Demonology, Ufology, and Archetypes | "Corpse Pollution"

World-renowned author and researcher Nathaniel J. Gillis joins us for an electrifying exploration of demonology, ufology, and paranormal phenomena. Hear firsthand about Nathaniel's haunting childhood encounter with a pale girl under his bed and how these experiences evolved into shadow figures and direct voice phenomena. We take a deep dive into how these enigmatic entities manipulate human perception through archetypes, staying several steps ahead to evade detection.

Prepare yourself for a gripping discussion on the complex relationship between the soul and physical manifestations. We'll unravel a vivid childhood dream about the Wicked Witch of the West and a mysterious appearance of scars years later, challenging our understanding of altered states of consciousness. Drawing parallels with remote viewing and abduction phenomena, we question the limitations of modern ritualistic practices and probe the boundaries of reality and consciousness.

Nathaniel also shares chilling real-life paranormal encounters, including a harrowing possession case tied to a recent murder and a unique theory suggesting alien encounters and demonic manifestations might be orchestrated by a singular, malevolent consciousness akin to Sauron from "Lord of the Rings." From sleep paralysis and sleepwalking to the curious world of fast food marketing, this episode promises a rollercoaster of paranormal insights, historical case studies, and thought-provoking theories that will leave you questioning the very fabric of reality.

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Chapters

• 1:24 Our Guest Nathaniel J. Gillis
• 4:25 Phenomenon and Archetypes in Paranormal
• 16:41 Soul and Skin
• 28:21 [Ad] PodMatch
• 28:59 (Cont.) Soul and Skin
• 29:04 Exploring Occult Influence and Rituals
• 43:58 Real-Life Paranormal Encounters and Possessions
• 58:36 Weaponizing Archetypes in Paranormal Phenomena
• 1:13:36 Paranormal and Fast Food Chats
• 1:26:37 Marijuana Edibles Dosage and Quitting Smoking

Transcript

"$awbuck" Mike: 0:01

The Nephilim sightings are going to start soon.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 0:04

Consciousness has been enslaved.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 0:06

Your consciousness does not need your physical body to survive. It's the thing that's necessary. It has to be there. It's the coding that projects this world we currently live in. I want you to read the Bible. We got reptilians just outside of our frequency zone.

"$awbuck" Mike: 0:22

Six dimensional beings, the ancient builder race. Ideas are the highest form of intelligence, and that leads you to truth and clarity. The Nephilim sightings are going to stall soon.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 0:32

Conspiracy show it's obvious the aliens are god-fearing and insanely huge. We're just one planet.

"$awbuck" Mike: 0:38

They would have needed a minimum of six feet of lead shielding in order to get through the 25,000 mile thick of nl and radiation belt.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 0:44

This is real. They really did fake the moon.

"$awbuck" Mike: 0:47

The world is infinitely older than that and I mean the world with human beings in it, skull and bones, is like one of the villains in the legion of doom they said I'll let you read the bible.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 0:58

The biblical flood, the tartaria mud flood conspiracy, and chill. The nephilim sightings are going to stall soon. The bulldog ball I don't want you to read the bible. There's magnets in the basketballs. There was a political party, a third party called the anti-masonic party, at a point in uh.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:15

In the united states the global pandemic treaty conspiracy and chill podcast. So for folks that don't know, you are an author. You've written a couple of books, the Skin that Crawls A Moment Called man. You're a demonologist, a ufologist. I listened to a lot of your podcast appearances I could find, and one of the things that I thought was really interesting and I never heard a take like this was you believe that both phenomenon are the same and kind of somewhere down the line, kind of adjusted to us, kind of being aware of it, and I thought that was so interesting. So I could you elaborate on that a little bit yeah.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:58

So the phenomenon is evolving according to our awareness of it, and it is usually three or four steps ahead of us.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 2:05

So by the time we take, take a breath, catch our breath, for that matter you start realizing what's been occurring.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 2:12

It adjusts, it makes, uh, to a degree it's not just evolving according to awareness, but it's evading us, and so the research I've been doing as a late is looking at the interconnectivities between demonology, ufology and other phenomenon, the paranormal, and watching it as it has leaned into and out of archetypes, something that was created within the mind of the population or something was fabricated.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 2:48

Even now, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, the phenomenon starts demonstrating that, manifesting that with experiencers very strange stuff. And so the very first time I recognized that behavioral pattern was in my research regarding incubide succub cases where the phenomenon would step into roles and into archetypes in order to manipulate the experiencer, and these archetypes themselves were not always historically accurate. And that's when I realized wait a minute, we're being gaslit, we're being manipulated by a species. And so I of took that concept, concept and extrapolated that into a larger understanding of. You know, it's possible that even demonology itself isn't complete. I I'm pretty sure, at least from my perspective, that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is equally fraudulent and that, whatever this phenomenon is, in order to evade us, it has to evolve with us, and somewhere in that paradigm there is the reflective nature of whatever this intelligence is.

"$awbuck" Mike: 3:58

That is honestly like the most interesting take that I've ever heard on the phenomenon which is called the phenomenon. I think that's really brilliant that you were able to kind of piece that together through your research. Another thing, that I found really interesting was correct me if I'm wrong was your first experience was when you were nine years old, and it was with a being, a pale girl that had dark hair under your bed that ended up being a shadow or a shadow person.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 4:26

Right, right, and that case study alone it showed me how it was mutating in its pathology and so like, yeah, I can go down that, down that rabbit hole real quick for everybody. So I know there's gonna be new listeners on your show that haven't heard it. But I moved into a new house and it was close to nine. It was about eight and a half. You'd call it nine, whatever. I always use a half because at that time and age it mattered. Right, like I'm 15 and a half, you know. Um, now looking back, I'm almost 36 next month. I'm like doesn't matter at all, but, um, yeah, so I into the house.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 5:04

But it was actually touring the house before my parents purchased it that I encountered that apparition. It was a little girl hiding underneath the bed and at first blush I didn't know where to place her. I thought, at least in my little mind, that she belonged to a neighbor and that she had snuck in. You know the family was out to dinner. The only person there is a realtor, I'm thinking. You know she got in through the back door and she didn't realize we were going to be there. I didn't know what to think, honestly, but I couldn't place her Once we actually moved into that neighborhood. I knew everybody, every family, and obviously, being that young, you know how it is man who's playing today, looking, looking out there, looking outside for bicycles, like all right. Once I got to know the neighborhood, I realized this girl belonged like she didn't belong to anybody, none of the families. She wasn't even somebody that actually lived there in the past and I could have told you that after moving in and experiencing what I encountered I mean, it wasn't just a little girl, like I said, it mutated and it's pathology. Then it was shadow figures, then it was what's called direct voice phenomenon, which is always occurring above your head, and I would wake up to full body or not full body, but full blown conversations occurring above my head, where I could hear seemingly two entities conversing. And it was the weirdest thing ever and I thought I was alone, until I got connected to a guy named steve mara who was like you know, he's a press psychologist. He's like no man, he's like this.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 6:33

We experienced this too, but there was this, this parasitic and symbiotic relationship that this, this entity, demonstrated. It wasn't merely on a level of haunting, it was almost I said this before, but it was almost projecting a fear on me and in monitoring my belief in it. Do I agree with the intrusive thoughts? And once I started to believe not just in the intrusive thought but in the terror it was projecting, that's when it seemed to get stronger, and so I created a coping mechanism where I allowed myself to feel the fear coming from it without being afraid of it.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 7:19

So it was almost me allowing myself to have autonomy that that kind of disavowed the phenomenon. I mean, literally I winged it off and in a sense starved it, and before long it just dissipated to nothing. But that was my very first encounter with this intelligence and if anything, I learned that, um, this entity was not various phenomenon, it wasn't a ghost one day right and a demon the next. No, it was a singular intelligence that had worn both entities as masks, and that kind of spawned this idea in my mind that has since been validated by others in the field that what we are dealing with is a singular intelligence and that in order to evolve and evade us, it has to dawn various incarnations and archetypes, that in that way it kind of eludes us in forever existing in the dark corner where we'll never truly understand what it is, where it's coming from and what its agenda.

"$awbuck" Mike: 8:30

So, from that day forth, were you able to interact with the phenomenon or were you more conscious or aware of it?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 8:38

I was aware of it absolutely. Another strange thing happened, though, when I first entered that room during the open house. Of course, I saw the full-bodied apparition, but there was a stench to it, and I'm looking around and there's nothing in the room. It was just a bed, that's it. So there wasn't, like you know, anything decomposing, there was no rotten or rotting organic matter, it was just a bed.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 9:02

And yet I smelled something, and later on in my life, especially doing investigations, I realized that that was most likely either consciousness or that entity itself, and that what I was using to perceive it was not my nostrils, it was some kind of extrasensory way of interpreting that entity, and I've been on investigations where I've experienced that again. Right, some people consider it smells like sulfur, some other demonologists say that it smells like a corpse, but that was another manifestation that really piqued my interest, and so later on in my research, I came across literature that it was about case studies in antiquity, where early demonology consisted of that like they literally believed that the entity itself smelled like the body it came from, and so there was this sense of what's called corpse pollution and that's. I don't want a picture on that, but that's essentially what I experienced to my belief, now, my knowledge now, um, but whatever we're dealing with, it's hyper evasive and it will often implant archetypes within our consciousness and then use that as a mortal portal, portal which to manifest into. This is why and I noticed this specifically with experiencers that like, for instance, one experiencer was abducted by Jesus, but the problem is, it wasn't like the you know the historical version of Jesus, right? No, he wasn't from the Levant, he was like the Swedish Presbyterian version of Jesus. He wasn't from the Levant, he was like the Swedish Presbyterian version of Jesus.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 10:47

And so what the phenomenon did this is incredible is it was almost like it took an image of Jesus in her mind and stepped into that mask and then began interfacing with her. And this is why it's so difficult for many experiencers to break away from the idea. Okay, that's not who it's appearing to be. Why? Because it's constructing its mask out of archetypes that we have already believed in, and so this demonstrates a symbiotic relationship. And I don't want to ramble, man, so you can. I can just go on and on, but I won't so what do you believe that the source entity would be then?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 11:27

You think that most phenomena then would be a single, you know, malevolent intelligence.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 11:32

Then just all over the place. It can be malevolent, what it wants to be. I've had cases where it turns symbiotic to parasitic, and this is interesting too. It quite literally takes all of the information about you that it gleaned during the symbiotic relationship co-evolving with you and then takes all of that information, weaponizes it when it wants to become parasitic. We've seen these case studies within succubi encounters where, when the phenomenon begins to interface again with the female, oftentimes it will mask as a husband, a lover, a deceased, like a deceased husband. All the above and in.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 12:16

The woman has no idea what this is. But but it's trying to to mimic. It's called parasitic mimicry. It's wanting that experiencer to believe I am who I appear to be and somewhere within that paradigm belief. It's almost like they're not just stepping into the role, but they're fulfilling that role to a T and so, whatever that image is, it somehow coordinates with what their agenda is. So, for instance, I had a case study in India where a lady was being visited by multiple entities, like for the last three years, and she's like it usually comes at night, hovers over me and it looks like an ex-boyfriend. But I said, ok, well, how many boyfriends has it manifested as she goes well, everybody that I've been intimate with. She said seven men. I said so do you think that these are all separate entities? She said no, I believe it's one entity, but it's wearing various masks, and so when you get into the way it interfaces with these experiencers, it's not just deception. It's deception according to the agenda, and once, and even within the uh, one of the gnostic texts, the apocrypha of john. It talks about this very behavioral pathology where, literally, okay, I'm interfacing with you and I want you to believe I am who I appear to be, but at the moment of conception, literally impregnation, the phenomenon would take the mask off and the experiencers left making eye contact with whatever that entity truly is.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 13:49

I had a case study, about three months ago now, where the gentleman wanted me to come and cleanse the house, and it's fascinating, but we were. He said okay, nathaniel. He said I want to explain my position. He's like I don't believe in spirits, I don't believe in any of this. He's like the only thing that convinced me that all of this is real is my wife, who has been visited by an entity that is constantly on top of her when she's in bed, and he said this is incredible. He said so the last time. She wasn't even asleep. She's awake, but she's in in paralysis. And he asked her, honey, where is he now? And she said he is hovering directly over me.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 14:35

So this pathology of evolving according to our awareness of it, of stepping into archetypes and roles, it is one of the more profound interconnectivities between demonology and ufology. So one man's incubi entity is a or, yeah, succubi entity is another man's abduction, to a point at least in my research it got to a degree where it's like, okay, there are too many overlapping characteristics for these phenomenon to be completely separate, and that's when I kind of drifted into occult research and we can get into that. But basically, to answer your question, I believe it's a singular intelligence and that we've seen it throughout history. It has evolved just as we have, and again, the reason it's evolving is because it wants to evade.

"$awbuck" Mike: 15:28

Before we get into some of the cold stuff.

"$awbuck" Mike: 15:31

I want to ask you or share rather a personal story that Tom, I think, does know about me, and I'm really not okay. Obviously I host a conspiracy show, so my mind is open, right, but I tend not to believe in ghosts and spirits. However, there is two instances in my life that make me question Before I share the one I want to share with you. That is rather strange and there's physical evidence on my body. But I wanted to ask you before what is your feeling when this phenomenon visits you in a dream? Can something leave a physical mark on your body from a dream? Absolutely.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 16:14

Yes, so to answer your questions, I want to hear what you're going to tell me. But yes, absolutely, and there is overwhelming evidence that these are not in fact dreams, that whatever they're doing to us is real, but in order to evade our senses and to guide us into cooperation. It's just a nightmare, and then you wake up the next day going wait a minute, okay, there are physical traces.

"$awbuck" Mike: 16:41

So when I was I don't know how old, I want to say maybe I was like eight or nine years old I was with my mother, we lived with my grandmother and we lived upstairs and it was like a brick bungalow house in Berwyn. So we lived upstairs and I had this dream my mom's favorite movie is the Wizard of Oz, okay, I had this dream that the wicked witch of the west was at the top of the stairs and I was in the middle, going up to her, and my mother was on the landing on the bottom saying michael, no, no, no. And I remember it vividly, like she was luring me up, you know, and that's all I remember from it. But then, years later, on my back, there's these three, one, two, three deep scars, like my mom said one day I was getting out of the shower, she's like what is on your back?

"$awbuck" Mike: 17:35

And I was like what do you mean? And she's like it looked like scratch and they like I could email you a photo of them it's like they're like three, like deep, and there's three. You can make an argument for a faint fourth, but there's three prominent ones and it's like dude, I don't know where they came from, but if you, if you, when you see them, you're going to be like okay, like there's no way that those could have happened without you knowing how they happened. You know right. What do you think, what do you make of that?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 18:02

Well, I mean, I've seen that before and I think the biggest point to make here about this particular case study is that it's reflective of what they're doing with the experiencers. Now, that case study is one that you could have put it in the UFO abduction phenomenon. It could have put it in the UFO abduction phenomenon, it could have put it in early demonology. You could make it a near-death experience, an out-of-body experience, because we truly don't understand what's happening during the dream state. We don't. Now there is evidence that I've collected, and also in Stevenson, where, during the dream state and this is just speculation to a degree, but the physical evidence is there, but for somehow the soul leaves the body, in that they're doing things to the soul that will then manifest through the skin. Case in point, and I say this again because people are going to fall. They follow my research. I'm going to say, nathaniel, you talk about this all the time, I do. I don't say I do, but it's a fascinating case study and it demonstrates a pathology that I think is worth considering anyways. So this remote viewer's father, the son, came to me but his father was a famous remote viewer and he was going in and out of his body, meeting his guides. They're all love and light, they're giving him prophecies that he's getting famous for as well as building wealth. So he would go out of his body, he'd meet them and he'd go back in and then he called like hey, listen, you know it's a popular politician. Hey, guy, you know you start pulling in this area of the state and not the other one. And so that's how he kind of made his money. Well, one night he said that his father went into a session and out of nowhere, his father comes stumbling down the stairs. He's incoherent, he's white as a ghost holding his chest. Well, when they finally got him to the hospital, he had a massive heart attack. He nearly died, but as they were ripping his shirt off, from underneath his skin to the surface there were three religious sigils. They were subdermal, moving to the surface.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 20:11

Now this is where demonology falls short, because they were interreligious, cross-cultural. So I've actually sent photographic evidence of this to various practitioners. That I know, because I'm not a practitioner you guys know that, right, I'm not, but I research it and so I sent them some photographs. Okay, what is this? They couldn't tell me, because it was some form of liturgy and occult magic that transcended even what we know to exist in this dimension, and yet they were performing it on this man. And yet they were performing it on this man.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 20:49

Now, the relationship between the soul and skin is is profound, and I mean there have been cases with the new abduction phenomenon, where we see the same behavioral pattern, where these people are abducted in there, in there, like it's almost like the astral body or in some kind of other form of consciousness, and they go through the entire experience, not realizing they're on a body, and then when they get back into their body, then they have scoot marks, then they have physical manifestation, and so what I'm trying to do now is kind of make that connection more sound, because it's not just you, brother, and I think hopefully that'll make you feel better, because that would suck if it was. What then he'd?

"$awbuck" Mike: 21:32

be like wait a minute, it's just me, well you know you know, it's funny because I don't think those appeared on my body until I was like shit maybe maybe 20, 21 years old, which ironically was after my first heroin overdose, which I was in a coma for five days.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 21:49

So as you're saying that, I'm piecing that in my head.

"$awbuck" Mike: 21:51

I'm like motherfucker, you know like oh yeah. Yeah, I got goosebumps, that shit's crazy.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 21:57

Well, it's a completely different concept of reality, and this is what grieves me about modern practitioners. It's like, okay, yeah, the rituals that they're giving you, they, the practitioners themselves, are thinking, okay, you know, I'm gonna do this, like you know, solomonic magic, I'm gonna create a circle and all this, and the beings will never be able to get me. And it's like, no, that doesn't work. This and the beings will never be able to get me. And it's like, no, that doesn't work. Now, it works with the archetype, but not with the proto-intelligence. When the true phenomenon manifests, the practitioner realizes very quickly.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 22:38

I have no box to put this in, it's transcending every model I have, and so this is why I lecture. When I england, I talked about, my lecture was called uh, the mulcher is a species within. But basically, what I was talking about was because of how many blind spots we as a species have. We're under the impression that we're conjuring them, when it's quite, it's very possible they're the ones conjuring us, and it's the illusion of control, my friends, where, by the time we build the altar, right, same thing with Tim Taylor, right by the time he goes out in there into the wilderness. Okay, sure, you spent two and a half hours driving, building an altar, blood, sweat and tears, and then he has the audacity to tell us that he's the one conjuring them. No, so? So what this means, though?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 23:31

And this again, it plays into the concept and model of the phenomenon, guiding us through a series of methodologies and assumptions, literally allowing us to believe we have control. And then, by the time we're in the presence of the phenomenon, it's exactly like the other, you know, the older case where the phantom takes the mask off, and then now you're making eye contact with something you didn't even know existed. And this is why I believe that it's not just the alien hypothesis. We have to throw out even the modern demonic hypothesis. Right, I've actually caught the phenomenon leaning into archetypes that are not even historically accurate, that they have been a part of the zyat guys, literally a belief of pop culture.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 24:20

And yet, when it manifests, the malevolent hauntings, right, for instance, the number three, right, how many times have we heard that? Oh, the three marks on the wall, that's the Trinity. How do we know that? And so there is this. It's a profound manipulation going on, but this is just another example of evolving in order to evade, because if it can manifest as a demon, then we don't really understand what it is, because the demonic it is leaning into is not historically accurate. This is making sense. We're being manipulated.

"$awbuck" Mike: 24:53

That's dude, that's crazy.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 24:55

I never thought about us being a projection of them, you know oh, yeah, yeah, yeah that makes sense, because think about all the like shamanic practices and cultures and ancient uh, you know, like pagan stuff. That would think about all the shamanic practices and cultures and ancient pagan stuff. They would be like oh, the nature spirits told us to make this drink or whatever. They told us to do this ritual to summon them or to talk to them. But that's exactly like you said. It's kind of those spirits compelling and controlling the person and not the other way around Making it seem like oh yeah, look, you're so smart, you figured out how to summon me.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 25:25

and like oh my, god, brother, there's a um behind me. There's a book called eros and evil and in that book, r-e-l, r-e-l masters. He talks about an albin jinxian anthropologist who was on the trail of a particular potion created by his favorite witch. So he spent I think it was the better part of a decade traversing the planet, the world, looking for various ingredients, and finally he got them all. He fulfilled the rite. He got them all. He fulfilled the right, put them all together, ingested it, and then, when he got where he was going, the entity said what are you doing here? What are you doing here? I got chills now Because, again, it's this, and I've talked about it before, but it's not just that we're being seeded with technology.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 26:28

It's almost as if the phenomenon is implanting itself into the tech and then seeding us with itself. And so now we look at this and think, oh, my God, right, we're going to be so advanced. And then it's like but yeah, what caused? Because this, this is another behavioral pattern that's pervasive. At a certain time of its choosing, it will want something in.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 26:55

In the greater portion of that has been blood, ritual, yep to where, for whatever reason, it's not. Hey, listen, I can. I borrow some money from you. Right, can you go get me a 12 pack of beer? No, right, it's, it's not even going into. Okay, we're from the future, we want.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 27:15

No, it's quite literally retracing the footsteps back to antiquity and say, hey, listen, this is where I want you to go, this is what I want you to build me, and in response I'll give you what you want. But, yeah, so all of this in my mind, even demonology and all that it has come to bear, it's centered around and at least from my perspective now, in overlordship to where I grew up in the evangelical church. It's like, okay, well, they're all hordes and hordes. It's like, okay, well, who's performing these rituals? Because if these practitioners are performing rituals to influence them, and they're performing rituals as well, who's in charge of them? And so it's kind of opened at least my imagination, my mind, up to a three-tiered concept of reality, at least with respect to what these entities are.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 28:51

So do you have an idea or opinion on what you think they are?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 28:56

then, I think they're parasites and I would suggest it's a lot like it's it's primeval.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 29:05

It's primeval like one of the rings oh 100, 100, and they're playing by different rules. Oh, 100, 100, and they're playing by different rules. And so you know, like, like I said, they'll give us incantations. Oh yeah, here's a little bit of a ritual. And so, in the whole ritual itself, okay, I'll perform these rights and then, by the time I'm done, you then will. You'll be forced to incarnate, it's like. But that's not true, because they can incarnate anytime they want to, right? So what is what's the need for a ritual then, unless it is essentially to bait people into obedience? It's right to walking the plank out into the murky darkness and then, by the time they get there, they pluck the one. All right, here you go.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 29:50

And so this is again, I mean overlords, overlords, and of the highest order, that have mastered laws about the occult that we're completely ignorant of, even to the degree that, even like the interfaces, they will manifest as that which is existing beyond the mask, right, the proto-intelligence looking through the archetype. It's following laws we don't know about, and they are. And so, during this entire paradigm, it's it's one, okay, I want you to do this, or, you know, you do this with a symbol. Meanwhile, that practitioner's thinking oh, my god, this is the best thing I've ever had. And yet that entity right, it's almost like it has policies and belief systems that that experiencer is clueless. And we've seen evidence of that in demonology, right, where, like there was one case in the the debuk phenomenon in 16th century, where one entity was looking to haunt a woman and yet he and he wanted to copulate with her, and so she was averaged up until the night she got married. Boom, boom, you know, bang, bang, bang. It happens. And then, in the middle of the night, that entity comes knocking.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 31:13

And this is another area of my research that I'm going to really dive into in the next, probably the next year. I'm going to be opening up what's called Necronetics. It's a combination of necromancy and genetics. What this entity did, was it not only pierced her, I should say, but in the piercing of the body there was an invasion of consciousness To where there was some kind of device that she said okay, I felt it right, it felt like an actual man. You guys can edit this out, by the way, if you have to, because I know it's very dark, but there was a correlation between what she experienced sensually and then, but what was implanted within her was the consciousness of the entity that had performed the assault. And it's incredible because there's again. It leaves us within this paradigm of okay, is this technology, or is this spiritual, or is this consciousness? And yet at least these case studies are implying that they're almost the same.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 32:33

I think you're definitely onto something, that it is all the same, and that's why I asked what you think they are, because so many people will be like oh well, it's reptilians, it's demons, it's fallen angels, it's it's the, it's aliens, it's uh, whatever. But I think it's very clear to anyone who's deep into alternative thinking that there's a a non-human element influencing our world and controlling it in a very big way oh yeah, and so and this is so necronomatics, for everybody's going to be listening to this um, again, it's the combination of necromancy and genetics.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 33:06

Um, so if you took the entire field of demonology and all that it's been able to contribute. We're looking at possession cases, incubi, succubi, scarifications, and sometimes even Sinistrari, who's a Franciscan priest, had victims that had amulets carved underneath their eyelids. Very sinister, nearly like a serial killer thing. It's very strange. But within all of the demonological lore there is a singular theme. You have the succubus who comes to the man, harvests the seed Okay, fine. Then we have the incubus who takes the seed that was harvested, then he goes to the female and we talked about those cases earlier right, all the cognitive interfaces went up, and then it inseminates her, and then so you take those concepts and shelve it. Then you get into modernity, and then we start hearing about the missing fetus syndrome. And so in my research I thought you know, has there ever been the missing fetus syndrome back in demonology? And you know, we perhaps missed it. And if we did in fact miss it, is it possible that it's perhaps more demonic than it is alien? And so that's when I kind of retraced the steps.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 34:30

What I realized was that the incubi, the succubi, the missing fetus, possession of the pregnancy, are all intertwined with a singular ritual of replication not found in ufology, but found in demonology, specifically in the occult, where the adept, the mage, would go and inseminate a woman and commandeer the body of the fetus as its own biological avatar. And, by the way, by the way, the actual principles and precepts are identical Find her when she's sleeping. If she's not asleep, feed her something that will put her to sleep, induce her into a dreamlike state, check, check, check, and then the child's born in the and this is called the red right, in the ultimate black mass. And then, okay, I, and literally the, the magician says okay, this is my body, and so then you have the consciousness, that's the new biological avatar. Now, that's not me, that's. That's essentially exactly what we have known to be demonology, and so the only connectivity.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 35:45

At a certain point, my research, the only thing I didn't have was the correlation between possession of pregnancy you guys probably heard me talk about this, right? Maybe yes, and so at that point again, it's just another factor, another piece of the puzzle that makes me think okay, is this all centered around the occult? And, if it is, are those powers manipulating us now to think that, oh my God, they're extraterrestrial, because in doing that now they get the benefit of doubt? Anyways, man, I ramble dude, so please forgive me. That's good.

"$awbuck" Mike: 36:28

I can't help. If we're going to bring up the occult, I can't help but bring up Aleister Crowley. What are your feelings on him?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 36:38

Well, there's a lot of legend surrounding that figure. You know, was he the wickedest man in the world or the most evil? I mean, he was saying that in jest. People were heaping all kinds of rumors on him and yet, at the end of the day, he was entertaining dark forces that even he had no control over. And in fact, at the very end of his life, some people believe that exactly what we're talking about now, the cult transference took place between him and his son, because he told everybody I'm placing my consciousness in him Shortly after his son began to suffer delusions and paranoid schizophrenia, he again Crowley was, and I understand what he was trying to do.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 37:27

I mean to a degree. I mean, I have had friends that grew up in church in a very strict religious household, friends that grew up in church in a very strict religious household. And if they didn't like religion and yet they were still spiritual, a lot of them tended to go into the occult because they still had a desire to know and they believed in something. But with respect to even crowley. To understand crowley, you have to understand people like eliphas, levi you, and then you have to go to a Bromel in the Mage. But with respect to Crowley, what we see with his you know the Golden Dawn and all of that is essentially bastardites that were centered on the belief in God, the oneness of God, purity and holiness, specifically Bromel in the Mage. And so some of what he was doing, most of it, was essentially taking those incantations, deconstructing them, reconstructing them and thinking, okay, they'll play by the same rules. And what really disturbs me the most is some of these incantations, the way they were structured, should have not even worked. Think about that, according to what Eliphas Levi in Brhma Mimei said, none of these incantations should have been in contact with angels, and yet something in the ether responded.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 38:47

And so this gets back to the primordial man and the phenomenon implanting right, implanting rituals, implanting incantations into the mind of the practitioner to draw them, and this is again who's conjuring who here. But this is what, and this is some of the research I've been doing as of late. It's like the tulpa, right? We've always believed that the tulpa was a thought form, and so what you have is the individual has a thought in his head, that thought as a form, and so the idea was that from the thought form comes the form of that thought. The problem is the evidence is saying that the topo, whatever you want to call that is not just the thought form, it's the entity forming that thought.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 39:44

And this gets back into antiquity, with the primordial man stoking his fire at night. Right, okay, I want you to go carve the name of an unclean spirit into a piece of metal and plant that into a corpse. That is not us Phenomenon offered the thought, and then when that practitioner goes out and begins to obey and demonstrate, suddenly the phenomenon says okay, fine, here I am, so there is this again. It's. I think a lot of this does start out in the mind and then, by the time the practitioner opens him or herself up to it, the phenomenon has now established itself and in a way, it's like we're looking on the wrong side of a two-way mirror.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 40:36

Do you think there are good entities, or pretty much just ones that want to manipulate and use us? There is something out there, dr, call a term. She was working with experiencers, her entire family, including herself. They were all being abducted by extremely sinister forces and in an act of desperation, she appealed to whatever was out there. That was good right, you can just visit me. I need encouragement. They were threatening her and telling her you are due for an adjustment prior to her getting cancer.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 41:08

So she was going through all of this and she goes to bed and it's just like every other night, or at least it seemed like every other abduction. Only this time this is the craziest thing, she said I was asleep, but I was also awake and they had taken her. Another intelligence, another, I guess, other beings, took her out of her body and she said now I'm sitting in a chair. And she said the craziest thing about it was I knew that my body was in my bed, but I am in a physical, tangible chair and I'm touching it like I'm right. Boom, it's just like I could feel it with my hands. And uh, she said there was like this, these group of beings, uh, that were in front of her, flanking her on the right and left, almost, almost, like what do you call it? Like the Supreme Court would.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 42:02

And there was this screen behind them and it was playing a scene from the Bible and that was when Jacob and Esau go to their father and Jacob does and steals right the birthright. And they play it over and over and over again. They'll pause it. They'll pause it, rewind it and play it. And she said I'm there for half an hour and I'm going like what is, what is this? You know, carla, carla, dr turner, you didn't see this again. Boom, replay it. And it was the scene where you know, the guy puts the, um, the, what's it called? I think it was the scene where you know the guy puts the what's it called? I think it was the camel skin, everything on him, the dad's feeling oh okay, I'll give you the birthright.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 42:44

And so finally, they asked her like what do you see? She says, oh, you know, she explains it. You know blah, blah, blah. Okay, let's break it down for you, dr Turner, there is a species on your planet that wants to steal your birthright. It wants the planet for itself. The way it's going to do it, it's going to appear as love and light and, more importantly, it's going to appear as one of you. It's one. It basically it's wanting to steal the planet. And so she said, ok, so you, you are good, like, you are benevolent. And they said, yes, we know what's going on, but we want you to know what's going on. And then, it wasn't too long after that, that she got cancer and unfortunately died. So do I believe that there are entities out there that are good? I do, but yeah, so I don't know. I mean, obviously I do believe that, but you know, my research has been set around the darker nuances. Um, but that's where I'm at now.

"$awbuck" Mike: 43:50

Guys, you have obviously gone on a number of actual on location case studies. So I'm wondering, of actual on location case studies, so I'm wondering what is the most frightening encounter or experience that you've ever had? Or if I guess, I'm assuming that you've had one, I'm assuming that you've had one what was like the craziest, most intense one you've ever had?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 44:15

Okay, so most cases are like you're there for two and a half hours, you get like a couple of EPs. Okay, so most cases are like you're there for two and a half hours, you get like a couple of vps. This one was strange, uh, because it was a murder case and I didn't know it was a murder case. So when I did the cleansing which I don't do them now because I don't, you know, I don't even know what they are yet, so I had to kind of back up a little bit, um, but yeah, the family had reached out because they were having paranormal activity and when I got there I actually saw where they had to cut up the blood or cut up the carpet from the blood. I still, I had no frame of reference, I wasn't reading newspaper, I had no idea, and so what had happened was two minors. One of the daughters in that family had conspired with a 15 year old from school and, uh, the 15 year old was stalking the family and the husband, when I got there, talked to him like he had. It was almost like to try to gut him because he had a scar from the top all the way down and they had stitched him up. But I guess I don't know how this happened, but I guess a tip of a knife was broken off and they didn't get it out, and so it got. It was really weird. So the 13 year old was conspiring with the girl she met at school and this girl was 15. And the father told me when I got there he goes, goes, nathaniel, he's like my wife and I both worked second shift. He said so, you know, we're off work, we're watching movies, you know, at nighttime. And he said we were at that point. We were aware our daughter was talking to this girl from school and he said that we had instructed her like we don't want you to hang out with her, we get a bad vibe there's, there's something different and dark about her. You know we'd ask you to just leave her alone. He said that that wasn't happening. And he said so.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 46:09

The phenomenon, the paranormal phenomenon, started one night when they were watching TV. And he said I saw a movement out of the corner of my eye. I look out the window, there's that 15-year-old girl staring at him. He said so. We called the police. Please get there. She's long gone. He said so.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 46:27

A few months go by, our daughter has basically locked herself in the room while talk to us. And he said again my wife and I got off work, we're downstairs eating food, watching a movie. And he said my daughter walks downstairs, opens the front door. Now this, you guys probably I don't want you guys to get demonetized, but she said that, um, the 15 year old came in and she had a bandana over her face and stubbed nose, scissors in one hand, a knife in the other and she was trying to kill everybody. And I said I'm telling you I could feel the evil in the room as he's talking and he goes. Okay, he goes. And the main reason I called you over here, nathaniel, is because when she was stabbing us, there was a male, guttural voice coming out of her talking to us. And he said we're pretty sure it was possession. So unfortunately, the mother did die. And, uh, when I got there, they had like a bunch of the family members there. They wanted to cleanse the house. Well, I did the cleansing and when I was done with the cleansing, it was almost like somebody turned the lights on. It was so bright. I had this on record on a recording where the family they were freaking out, going around and wondering if somebody just turned the lights on because whatever was there left.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 47:49

Now, fast forward. A few months later. I'm at a restaurant. Have you guys heard this yet? I hope not. No, okay, I don't want to be repetitive. I'm at the restaurant, a restaurant, same restaurant, same time, same seat. I was when I got the original message to reach out and there's a woman and her husband are sitting on my left. I'm reading Eros and Evil, ariel Masters, and I'm looking at her and she keeps peeking around her husband and I'm thinking, okay, she's going to switch seats. And now I've got to like I'm'm gonna come up with another thing. I'm doing like I'm reading poetry or something, because I didn't want to have that conversation with her. So once we get into the conversation um, you know, I'm researching.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 48:32

This is what I call like lecture on my stuff. She goes, okay, she goes, uh, like you have any cases. I didn't go in too much detail at all. It was actually less detail than I went with you guys tonight and by the time I was done, she goes. Okay, you're Nathaniel Gillis and I'm not saying this so people can say, okay, I'm not like. Oh, I'm somebody. No, no, that's not what I'm saying at all.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 48:52

I'm telling you the story because it's kind of freaky, because I said well, how do you know that she goes?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 48:57

Because I was the social worker that worked with both minors.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 49:00

She said she goes to remember the time and there was a time when they wanted me to go visit the daughter at jail and jail but the lawyers wouldn't let it and I was actually, I was uncomfortable, I'm like I'm not doing that. But apparently what happened is the night I did the cleansing, she got a phone call the social worker did from the jail and the little girl was freaking out. She said because the entity now this, this explains things the entity that had been visiting her at night in her house, went to her jail cell and said I can no longer be here, I no longer have authority. Now, weird, I took that and I I talked, talked to a practitioner about that and I said like where do you? What is this Like? Can you explain this to me? He said, yes, he's like. I don't know what that was, he said, but it was almost like there was some kind of consent or authority, obviously, that it had over that girl and then, after it, did what it wanted to do it's gone.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 50:03

So it said I no longer have authority after the cleansing.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 50:06

Yes, very weird. Now, what's even more, I should say that not more interesting, but the sister to the husband called me. It may have been, it was a little bit before that instance, but it was like two or three weeks after the cleansing and there was an atheist there, I think his name was Tommy, and Tommy wants to talk to, or no, danny, danny wants to talk to you and I'm like okay, and I'm thinking I'm about to get chewed out or something, and Danny goes. No, he goes, you know, in a family. He. And Danny goes. No, he goes, you know, in a family, goes. Since that event he said he had, he had gotten the phone book and called every preacher and every pastor here in the Dayton area and it was like trying to tell them what happened.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 50:48

But I don't know. It's an interesting case study, but I don't know what it means. I know, I experienced it and I guess what stuck out to me the most was it couldn't open its own door. It could, we know that, but for some reason in this instance it was almost like it had to have permissive will. And so, whereas the 13 year old would never have stabbed anybody not prone to violence, the 15 year old would, but the 15 year old's not, on the inside of the house. So it was almost like it was manipulating both that's nuts that's absolutely crazy what do you got in the works?

"$awbuck" Mike: 51:29

I know you, you, uh, you've authored two books. Are you working on a third, or?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 51:32

I know that's probably a monumental task in itself yeah, I want to lean heavily to Necronetics because I think that would explain the Nephilim in a different light, where these beings weren't just possessing but there was pregnancy involved. And so that's when I lecture, I tell people you know, pregnancy to us is possession to them, possession to them is pregnancy to us, and so it's a way they self-replicate their species, them, possession of them is pregnancy to us, and so it's a way they self-replicate their species. So necronetics would be a huge endeavor because I have to collect each case study. And then I'm wanting to do something I haven't done in a while and that would be in-home investigations, but not with the focus on cleansing right, right, but as kind of an observer, an observer where I say, okay, you know, can you tell me what's going on and collect any and all evidence.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 52:27

Other than that, I'm going to be also adding topomancy we kind of covered it today, but topomancy into the fold, because I absolutely believe that some of the archetypes it's stepping into, it's authoring and it's first coming to us to see if you believe in the image. And if you believe in the image, you have to obey it, and that my is the cognitive interface. Do you believe I am your husband. Yes, obey me. Do you believe I am an angel? Absolutely Okay, obey me. And then, with the obedience that entity, this intelligence, begins to implement rules. And so I'm after the rules and I'm after the proto intelligence, the source got a couple things.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 53:27

uh, one's kind of a question, one's more of a comment. Uh, so the necronetics, what comes to mind with that is like when people say the abductions run in their family or possession, or like familial curses and and you mentioned the Nephilim, like the elites that believe that they're descended from these bloodlines, and these bloodlines that you know keeps them to interface with these entities and stuff, and that's pretty much it, right.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 53:53

Yeah, absolutely, and I think there's truth in that. Oh, absolutely. So yeah, necrcromancy would be, would literally be OK, I, I am dispossessing my body, or I mean this gets back in the legend of the unclean spirit too. Right, I'm wondering. Dry places seeking rest? Why? Because they believe the rest was in water, they were underneath, I don't know. But yeah, so necromancy would be centered around the self-replication of species. See, within the debug phenomenon.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 54:22

The demonologists realized that the entities were not just impregnating the women, they were possessing them, and that these women were not just pregnant by the intelligence, they were pregnant with it. And that is literally why I'm replicating myself, wherein that entity chooses the host of the parasite and it's like okay, we always were taught, especially in the ufology, the host is the wife or the woman, right, the hybrid mother. That's not true. The host is the fetus. Why do we know that? Because it didn't take the hybrid mother. That's not true. The host is the fetus.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 55:00

Why do we know that? Because it didn't take the hybrid mother when possession was done. It took the fetus. So that is necronetics. And yet what I'm deeply concerned about brethren is and I've done this before where I've tripped over something, something that they did not want me to see. And then at the end of the day I get a knock on the door or, like Dr Carla Turner, right, so many other researchers you know like okay, you should have seen that, you should have done that. And then you know I disappear or something.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 55:39

The other half is. So you said that you stopped with the cleansings because you don't feel like we fully understand what that is or why it's working. And uh, my question is like what kind of cleansing, like what kind of spiritual take on it are you having? Are you like, uh, do you consider yourself a Christian? Or was it more like a Catholic exorcism thing, like what were you doing? I do lean on the Christian principles, you know. Like uh, do you consider yourself a christian, or was it more like a catholic exorcism thing, like what?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 56:01

were you doing. I do lean on the christian principles, you know, on morality and whatnot. I don't know that our demonology is complete. I mean, you know, and that's what bugs me the most about the modern field, is any and all demonology that's being done, it's all rooted. Okay, this is our grandpa's demons, like these guys are just still out there in the wilderness like, oh crap, you know, is this guy cutting himself? Let's go take him over? And it's like no, no, no, no, it's.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 56:30

It's deeper than that and some of their abilities transcend the demonological model and I'm willing, willing to admit that. And that's why I suggest, right, that these are archetypes. And let me dive deeper into this for a fleeting moment. I said this the other day on Paul St Clair's show Truth Proof, where some people say, okay, well, you know the horns and hooves. Yeah, that's a social construct, correct, correct, but the phenomenon manifested as horns and hooves, right, see what I'm saying why? Because if the phenomenon can create physiological constructs, that means that you and I can have a conversation today and that tomorrow, another me can show up and begin to revise, use revisionist history and say, oh, by the way, when he, when I was talking about necromancy and all. That's not what I really meant, and then quite literally take out your concept of me and change it do you believe like a demon can mimic like you'd be?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 57:36

in your house and like oh wait, was that my mom and then your mom's downstairs or something like that?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 57:40

like fully manifesting oh well, there's one case this is in beyond ufo is a book behind me where a little girl awakens to the voice of her mother. Come into the hallway, calls her by name, come to the hallway, come to me, come to me. And she's walking at nighttime, so you can imagine it's almost something out of Sixth Sense, like it's freaky, it's almost it's weird. She walks out of the hallway, she goes towards the bathroom, looks up, she hears her mother's voice coming out of an entity and her mother and her father are in the other room paralyzed watching it happen. So this gets back to this concept of if it can mimic a parent. For instance, dr Carla Turner. She was abducted. During her abduction, one of the communities told her I am your mother. We can take out that word mother and place angel, ghost, ancestor, guide, and the model still holds true. And so now it's like okay, I don't care what you want me to call you. Right, there has to be a better way to vet you and your agenda. So that's where I'm at.

"$awbuck" Mike: 58:57

Do you believe in spirit groups up, so that's what I'm not. Do you believe in spirit groups? And if you do, do you believe that maybe deceased family members or whoever, maybe in?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 59:15

your spirit group can actually protect you from, uh, evil spirits per se. There are cases about that, know, I believe to a certain degree. The problem is this there are entities that could possibly be formerly human. There's somebody working with them. There's somebody performing these rights, there's somebody performing these rights, and there are even case studies where people are abducted and they see the dead, to the point where one individual case study, the individual didn't even know the person and the oh yeah, I'm dead. I died today still wearing the clothes the individual died in.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:00:04

So, okay, another case study behind me, beyond ufos, there's an individual that um is a young man. He had a catastrophic car accident. He's pulled out of his body and he meets these entities. These entities tell him him your body is mangled. You do not have the ability your doctors at least do not have the ability to save your life. We do. We will fix you up, put you back into your body. You will live on one occasion. What's that? Okay, look, we want you to become our prophet. We want to be able to call upon you at the time of our choosing, at which point you will do say and go to where we want you to go to. Next thing the man knows he wakes up in his body.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:01:03

So the possibility obviously exists that near-death experiences some of them are real, right, and that that there are some good ancestors on the other side. Okay, but we also have to entertain the possibility that if they can, if they can mimic the living, then they can also mimic the dead. And so, uh, do I believe it? I don't know, I haven't seen evidence, at least to my standard, of that that they're on the other side helping us. Um, me personally I haven't. So I'm kind of on the fence, I don't know. You give me questions, I'm like, okay, long story long, and then I work about it.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:01:39

No, that's good, that's why you're here, man, because you're the expert. You know we're just, uh, we're just along for the ride. You know they make a lot of movies about like the exorcist is probably the most famous one. Um, what are your, what are your feelings on like the omen, the exorcist and the supposed based on true story kind of demonology?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:02:02

I get bored with them. I find them at least interesting. Personally, I'm more attracted to Dark City. That and Tombstone are my favorites. But Dark City is more horrific than the Exorcist, and here's why because it's obviously a mirror of gnosticism. But in dark city there was a parasitic species that had not just invaded host bodies but that had invaded reality itself, and and it was implanting memories again, archetypes, into the minds of our species.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:02:47

And then, like for instance in the movie, the lead character's always looking for Shell Beach. He knows us there, he's been to Shell Beach. They gave him an image of Shell Beach. He's looking for it, can't find it. Finally he climbs up the billboard there's Shell Beach. They gave him an image of Shell Beach. He's looking for it, can't find it. Finally, he climbs up the billboard near Shell Beach and a homeless guy stays up there. He goes you looking for Shell Beach. And the guy goes. Absolutely, he goes me too. And so the homeless guy has collected thousands of newspapers. Boom, here you go, shell Beach. Shell Beach flooded right, right, shell beach filled with litter. He goes uh, do you remember going as a kid? I remember going. Right, where is it? Didn't exist.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:03:28

The phenomenon had placed the archetype, again, again in their consciousness, causing them to believe in something that didn't exist. And in in that belief there was the orchestrating of events, the moderating of human behavior, and, at the end of the day, it could not even be traced to anything that was real. This is what I'm talking about when we go into houses and we see 666 and we see allegedly demonic manifestations. Right, it's demonic, demonic, okay. Is it tied to the historical record? Or is it just like Shell Beach, another archetype that it's leaning into that has no real legitimacy facade. So when people say, okay, are we going to be invaded? We already have been, and it's not just, it's not okay, they're going to be on the lawn of the white house. No, it's the invasion of consciousness and the invasion of reality itself do you believe the cryptid phenomena is involved here too?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:04:32

is that just another manifestation of of this?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:04:34

well, I was talking to a guy earlier about this on the sky. Well, there is no doubt, physicality at least some to the cryptid phenomenon, but the there's also para physicality, where it's coming in and out of existence and what we are left with are scarifications of something that was tangible. Are scarifications of something that was tangible? Right, it's in one room and seemingly now it's in another. Um, but whenever I'm asked, that question my mind, because it goes back to this idea that any and all archetypes it can weaponize. Not just, okay, I'm, no, I'm not just interfacing with you, I'm weaponizing this Because with that archetype there are rules, behavioral patterns that if you believe in that archetype now, oh, okay, yeah, you're, you know, like the cryptid phenomenon. It's like, okay, skinwalker Ranch, you have Axelrod, who is from the Pentagon. He's researching the phenomenon there, right, he's observing more than anything and he feels something you know. Hey, listen, I gotta get out of here. On his way home he gets a phone call from the wife freaking out why there was a wolfman staring at her through the window. Guys, it weaponized an archetype. Hahaha, it went right and so so, because my good friend is paul st clair. He's, he's, I'm, I think he's the leading cryptid researcher in the world, because I I love him to death, plus he's really good. So it's I'm biased, buddy, but he, I mean. We always bounce these thoughts back and forth Because it wasn't just the archetype of the wolfman. All the family, they experienced it Children, the wife. By the time the husband got there the next morning, they collected photographic and physical evidence where that entity had claws and physicality enough to scrape bark off of the tree, but then he's gone.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:06:48

Now this weaponization of archetypes is not just witnessed in the cryptic phenomenon. It's also witnessed in antiquity, with ghosts and demons. There's one paper I have in front of me by a guy named Victor Doman, and he's talking about the Rephaim in Syria, and it's essentially the same phenomenon. Right, you build an altar, the phenomenon incarnates, gives you something in return for worship. Well, the phenomenon had convinced them. This is incredible to me convince them that if you don't give us what we want, we will turn into the demons and scare you instantly. Right, you see it now it's. Oh, that's an architect. Okay, fine, I'm weaponizing it. And. And so then I was like all right, is it possible? Right, that these practitioners, who maybe weren't good enough, they weren't giving enough good enough worship or the altar wasn't built to their standards.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:07:50

Is it possible that these experiencers were actually witnessing what the phenomenon was telling them Right? Horns and hooves, ghosts, malevolence, and the next thing, you know what are they writing in ritual bowls Against the same entities? It's commandeering entire fields of research in using portions of belief in pop culture to create a mask, and so, where I'm at now and others that I've lectured alongside of, we're at the point now where it's not just allegory, it's not just mythology, it's not just allegory, it's not just mythology, it's not just Folklore. All of that has been validated by the scientific method, and so now we know what are they. We have no clue, but they can rearrange timelines and, uh, that's what we're looking at now really interesting and I think it's getting closer to putting some puzzle pieces together hopefully man, we'll see bud, but I just got one more question for you.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:09:10

So there's obviously so you believe there's a physical component to them, but they can maybe like shift between physical and mental and ethereal and they can do whatever they want. Essentially, right, I guess I'm trying to get at is how long do you think they've been here on Earth? Like, did they precede us as human?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:09:30

yeah, well, and I'm still not convinced that these aren't formerly human, because some of the earliest theories regarding the demonic, even with um for katie eliezer, which was one of the elders in jewish mysticism literature, he said that the demons were malevolent ghosts, that there was, and again, people, especially the evangelical world, and I grew up and, oh, they're not ghosts, they're definitely not ghosts. Okay, fine, um, but let's go down that road for a fleeting moment. That would mean that some of these are mutated consciousness where others evolve. These mutated and in their mutation, it's very it's not a speculation very possible they were recruited. It's very and this is not a speculation very possible they were recruited. It's very possible that their very practitioners were discussing tonight.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:10:27

I don't know, obviously I don't know, but I think that there is enough evidence there to say that they didn't originate in the 1940s. They've existed since the dawn of recorded history, or at least since the very first human death became enable murder. Yeah, so I don't know, guys, it's I mean again, with each and every piece of the puzzle, you'd think we get an answer. It's not. It's more questions for real.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:10:58

Yeah, yeah shit, unfortunately well, I lied, because I I have another question, I guess where can uh everybody find more of nathaniel j gillis?

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:11:09

you can go to my instagram. I'm on instagram more than I'm on anything else. I have a youtube account. You guys, there's a playlist. You guys want to go to it that are listening. Um, there's a playlist of all my guest appearances just on youtube. I think we're, I think I'm over 100 or so, and so if you guys go like to newest or oldest, you know, depending on how you filter it, you'll see the evolution of my theories, as you know, started four years ago to now, but, um, yeah, it appears at least to be overlords of the highest order.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:11:46

Where can they find you? What's the at? So I'm going to add you in j or no.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:11:50

Nathaniel gillis, my bad nathaniel gillis, he's going there right now. Sweet, I love it. I love it, brother.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:11:56

Thank you man he's writing it down. I think, right, I'm typing it in. Yep, oh, he's like yeah, he's going all the way. Man, you got anything else, buddy tom no, this is a great episode.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:12:06

I'm excited to follow some more of your work. I think you are definitely putting some pieces together. Like I said, there's there's so much here and our community and ways that we could think about it, and I think yours is kind of really tying a lot of strings together thank you, brother.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:12:23

It's uh, there for a while I was all by myself. And then, you know, I got connected with some researchers in the uk that are parapsychologists and I gotta be honest with you, you know I was there for a while. I'm like, oh my god, like why am I even doing this? And then when they came with the scientific method and say, listen, this is what we found, I was astonished. You know, it's one thing to have a theory and then it's another thing to be like okay, so all of this it's kind of real, like it's legit, like the science. Yeah, it is.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:13:00

I think we're in a spiritual war and everybody could see it at this point Not everybody, but many.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:13:06

Oh yeah, they're waking up, but thank you guys so much for having me on. I had a blast. It went really fast. I loved it, of course, great one yeah.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:13:15

No thank you so much, man. I'm a big fan of your work. Keep doing what you're putting a lot of pieces together, making a lot of sense. So keep going, man.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:13:25

Well, guys, thank you very much. You guys have a good week, all right.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:13:28

Nathaniel J Gillis, demonologist, ufologist. I genuinely like how he is putting that, how he figured out that it seems to be the same phenomenon and I mean it makes a lot of sense, dude. I don't know. You know, I've never heard anybody lay out, lay out, a theory like that before I guess.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:13:51

Well, yeah, we've heard about uh you know the whole aliens or demons and angels type of deal. That's nothing new. But uh, the way that he laid it out as a singular entity or consciousness or something like like sauron from lord of the rings, appearing as all these different things and fucking with humanity, I think that that's that's real, no doubt.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:14:15

And I ate an edible. Um, I ate some rso and an edible around seven o'clock, so if my eyes look extra red, it's because because of that and his knowledge was hitting extra hard. Yeah, yeah, there was times when I was just kind of mesmerized. I think I heard the word archetyped about 409 times the exorcism question.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:14:40

I don't think he really got to it a whole lot. I kind of was curious to know what he did. Did he just like burn incense? Did he do prayers? Did he command demons? Like maybe we'll have to get him back on and talk more?

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:14:51

oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm going to send him, uh, I'm going to email him, a picture of my back, and then I'll, uh, I'll, also say, hey, you know, we'd love to have you back on because.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:15:01

Cause.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:15:01

Yeah, dude, I mean yeah, I mean I wanted him. He seems like he knows he's got pretty good recall with some of these case studies, I guess so. And some of these are just so strange, like that one he said about the girl walking out and her parents are watching it, like come on.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:15:19

Nah, I've never had sleep paralysis Hope I've never had sleep paralysis, hope I never do. But multiple girls I've dated have and that shit is terrifying. I feel like I was about to have it once and then I snapped right out of it.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:15:28

Yeah, I can't. I've never had sleep paralysis, but when I was a lot younger maybe like around the ages of like 11 and 12, I slept, walk a lot and I used to try to like go out of the house. Isn't that weird? Yeah, something else I used to try to like go out of the house.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:15:44

Isn't that weird, yeah, yeah. Something else I saw recently, definitely off topic, but Arby's posting like fucking an Illuminati ad. Like Arby's posting like an Illuminati pyramid with an eye on the top, like we're seeing you or we're back or something. Did you see that?

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:15:57

shit, I did not. What is it on their social media?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:16:03

Yeah, it's like a new rebranding of Arby's or like a campaign of making a mockery of Illuminati type of shit.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:16:09

Funny as fuck, I'm not a big Arby's fan.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:16:13

No, me neither. So that's why I'm like, ah, that's whatever, but it's still weird that they're putting that on fast food. I mean, I guess it's appropriate, but why, seems?

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:16:22

random. Yeah, maybe they're, maybe they have new owners. Maybe, Taking a different direction with the business you know.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:16:32

You know the Taco Bell symbols are reptilian eye, is it really? You'll never see it as that. You'll never see it as anything other than the reptile eye. Now, once I tell people that that's all they see, really, yeah, you got to look up the Taco Bell logo and tell me it isn't a reptilian eye.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:16:51

That's like the fucking FedEx, the fucking arrow in it. Once you find that arrow, you can never unsee that motherfucker. You know. You know what I'm talking about, right yeah of course In between the Hold on what you know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah, of course, in between the. So, whatever, what were we just talking about? Taco Bell, yeah, that's it. Sorry, edibles are kicked in, look it up Taco Bell logo more RSO than I am right now images. How is it the serpent okay?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:17:20

it's like just a shot out of the eye yeah, it is, that's crazy.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:17:24

Now I there's a slit, it's like just a shot of the eye. Yeah, it is. Huh, that's crazy.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:17:28

You'll never not see that again.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:17:31

That's so weird. I'm not a big Taco Bell fan, but Not either.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:17:36

I don't eat a lot of fast food in general. Someone said the McDonald the big like arching M is in some like black magic grimoire or something.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:17:44

My kids actually are going to McDonald's right now. Call and tell them to turn around now. They don't have. There's not many options around here at this time of night.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:17:59

I know but you're probably thinking it's. That's ridiculous, because you could probably literally get anything you want right now at 930 by you, but out by me. Your options on a fucking Wednesday night in Plano, illinois right now is you better get to McDonald's before 11. They will close and you could get maybe some pizza from Casey's. That's it. Well, for the next 36 minutes you can get Burger King or Culver's. It's kind of rough. Once 10 o'clock hits, though, forget about it. There might be a pizza joint, uber Eats. You might be able to find a joint from Aurora that'll deliver here. On Uber Eats, they might be open at midnight or something, but that's it. It sucks Midwest sometimes. Yeah, it's definitely not like it is by you, right? I mean you could. They're probably 24, 7, almost everything right. Yeah, checkers is really good. I wish I had a checkers out here, dude, because their fries are the best, absolute best number one fries culver's guy for fries culver's has amazing fries, but

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:19:06

portillo's I think is even better than culver's fries tier list. Let us know if that's what you want to see see out there on mcdonald's, even when they got some fresh fries.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:19:17

They're good man, they're not making my top five I around with fries, of course, I guess that's the. Uh, okay, that's the. So check this out. I was over at my my aunt, my uncle's house and my uncle had never seen braveheart either. Had my daughter. So I was like, all right, we're gonna watch braveheart. You know, because the first time I watched that movie was like maybe 97, 98, a couple years after it came out, maybe, and at that point I I thought I was, I thought I was italian and english, only because that's what people had told me. You know. So when I watched that movie originally I felt so like terrible and embarrassed to be english because of how absolutely brutal they were, you know. And I've watched it a few times in between, but nothing really changed as I've gotten older. Obviously it didn't hurt me as bad. But so I watched it this, uh, a couple days ago, and with some celtic pride I'm like, oh my god, like I'm crying and shit. I'm like I'm like yeah.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:20:29

I'm on the good side now, like even though they still get brutalized. But yeah, that's a good fucking movie it is sick, yeah. Mel Gibson is pretty good dude Apocalypto.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:20:40

He fucking directed that that shit was amazing, apparently he was viking movie that never came out have you seen apocalypto? No I haven't.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:20:51

Are you for real? I've not ever seen it. Okay, bro, so it's about. Okay, I know what it? Is, I just never watched it why, dude, that movie's really good really good, fucking good.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:21:03

You just gotta read.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:21:05

That's the only problem. But it's so good you don't even realize you're reading.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:21:10

So kind of like he was gonna do a movie in Old Norse. It was all gonna be in like old, extinct Viking, germanic languages.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:21:20

And the weapons probably would have been authentic, because the Mayan weapons were I think it was right around the time when he got like cancelled temporarily did you ever hear, when he did his appearance on Rogan years ago, about his father? I don't know, I don't think yeah well, I mean it was many years ago. He was trying to like rehab his fucking public figure after they blew away. But anyway, nathaniel gillis another good one in the books, definitely can you imagine being nine years old and literally finding a fucking monster under your bed like?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:21:57

seriously every night? Huh, I used to fear it every night, but for it to actually happen, yeah, it's wild yeah, you know what that reminds me of.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:22:05

Have you ever seen the movie with Fred Savage Little Monsters?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:22:12

also never seen with Howie Mandel.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:22:15

He's like a monster demon from the underworld, but he's like a happy, friendly one and he takes him under into this world with him. Nope, never seen it, oh my god dude. Well, I'm like this is my life and he takes him under into this world with him. Nope, never seen it, oh my God dude.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:22:26

Well, I'm like sometimes I feel this is my life though. Have you ever seen Blank show movie? Whatever me.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:22:32

No, come on, that's what I get from a lot of people oh man, well, plus, there's an age difference too. I think that probably matters, because that was like a rite of passage for for my generation, you know. So I get it, dude, like, what did you grow up like? What were your? What like when you were like 13 or 14? What was your shit? Uh, slipknot, no, no, I mean like tv, oh, dragon ball z.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:23:03

fucking. See, I was out of WWE but I then kind of More. So I was starting to like the Ultimate Fighter Frickin' what else, dude, I guess. Like cartoons and shit. I liked fucking Beavis and Butthead, the Simpsons, Jackass, shit like that. Bam, viva La Bam.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:23:26

Oh man, I remember this. Yeah, see, when I was like, that's like, when that shit was hot, I was like I was already older, I liked that shit, I was just older. So when I was younger it was like DuckTales not when I was 13 I would fucking be on the short bus, but that's like, that was fucking awesome. And when I was really young, it would have fucking been on the short bus, but that's like, that was fucking awesome. And when I was really young it was like He-Man and shit. And I fuck with the Smurfs too, because they're low-key, pretty cool. They were pretty awesome.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:23:53

Except for what the fuck was her name? The Lady Smurf Smurfette? She had to be a hooch. Just one female Smurf in a whole village of smurfs. Never thought about that. Something's happening. Oh well, like subscribe, follow, share, do all that good. Uh, two truth seekers on most social media or all social media platforms headhunter higgins, saabok, mike, uh, conspiracy and chilicom. I know there was a couple people that actually clicked on the um contact us link and we received the fan mail, but we can't respond to it. So it's like, why the fuck we? So? Yeah, that's, that's the situation what'd?

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:24:49

they say. They said they heard us on thor and they want to do a collab and I of course I want to get back to them. So hopefully they will hear this and hopefully they will contact us via conspiracy and she'll yahoocom so we can actually reply to you. So please don't think that we are just ignoring you. Was there a sender info? No, it's. It was just, uh, like I'll send you, like I could show you.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:25:18

It's just I think I know what you're talking about just like a leave, a message, send to us something, yeah, like if you.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:25:23

It's so stupid dude. It's like I even messaged like the help desk at Buzzsprout, you know, and I was like how do I respond to them? Thinking, you know, because it's sick, because the link says send us a text. So I'm like, okay, should we hold on and they're like no, currently you can't, but the best way is to shout them out in an upcoming episode. I'm like, really, that's fucking very. That seems like 1970s technology.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:25:53

Like listen to us tomorrow to see if you won the contest. You know, fuck man, it's 2024. There should be way easier ways to talk to these people. Here's your shout out out. Thanks for the fan mail. Yeah, well, actually, I think he's got a show. I think this person has a show and he wants to do like a collab, so yeah, you can contact us where we can actually reply.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:26:15

Yeah, obviously you'll know who you are. So, and thank you, and to everybody else, thank you as well. You could follow us on Patreon if you want become one of the very first conspiracy and shell syndicate members. And uh, it's almost all I could think of. When you eat edibles, how many milligrams do you take?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:26:36

I don't like to go over 20 or 30, what I don't do them around anymore, but yeah, I don't. I don't usually go over that at once. When I had covid, uh, and I was at home just like so bored and fucking, just gaming and getting frustrated at the game, frustrated I was sick and I was whatever, and uh, I ate 200 something, 220 milligrams throughout like a couple hour span, and that was terrible.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:27:00

So I'm on 90 right now.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:27:03

if it's spaced out well, I could see that one being enjoyable, but the 200 was just terrible. No, I ate it all at once, oh man.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:27:10

I ate it at seven.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:27:11

but not only that, I've been smoking like this thing too, and flour I've been on a hard weed smoking arc again, so I think it's time for another. Quit Quit smoke, quit smoke.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:27:24

I think it's time for another quit quit, quit smoke, quit smoke. I think it quits in order. I used to uh, the only time I used to have to like go on a cycle like that is when I'd get arrested and I have to quit for a little bit, then I'd get out and I'd be on fucking probation and then I'd have to keep, you know, because weed is a stays sticks around every drug.

"$awbuck" Mike: 1:27:41

Which is funny, dude. It's like the most cruel joke in the world. You know you can blow cocaine all weekend, dude, and by Wednesday you're good, you know, but whatever, alright, bro. So yeah, stay away from pedophiles guitar solo.

Nathaniel J. Gillis: 1:28:16

Thank you.