#17 | Walter Bosley | MK Ultra, Latitude 33, and The Tuatha Dé Danann | "He Died In 1935, How Am I Seeing Him In 1981"

Walter Bosley shares information that could alter your understanding of our world and its hidden dimensions. Together, we traverse the landscape of the unexplained, where UFOs and the occult dance with the pioneers of space exploration. Bosley, a former counterintelligence agent with a penchant for the esoteric, brings a wealth of knowledge about false memories, Roswell, and consciousness to the table.

A tapestry of personal anecdotes and government enigmas unfurls as we discuss the possibility of implanted memories by MK Ultra specialists and the shadowy past of Operation Paperclip. Imagine a world where tales of underground civilizations are not mere fables but a complex web of Cold War espionage and covert space races. When recalling a mysterious encounter at Disneyland, the conversation takes a whimsical turn, sparking musings on whether the park harnesses telluric currents and whether Walter's peculiar interaction hints at deeper, arcane connections.

Closing this episode, we wander through the folklore of the Fae, their curious ties to acts of generosity, and the concept of Tulpas. Could Fantasyland be more than a mere attraction? Perhaps it's a psychotronic device influencing supernatural experiences. As we pay tribute to the enchanting stories of the Tuatha Dé Danann, we unravel how our heritage is intertwined with these ancient narratives, offering a glimpse into the profound impact of Irish and Celtic mythology on our collective identity. 

Walter Bosley's website

Transcript

"Sawbuck" Mike: 0:01

The Nephilim sightings are going to start soon.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 0:04

Consciousness is being enslaved.

Walter Bosley: 0:06

Your consciousness does not need your physical body to survive.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 0:11

It's the thing that's necessary. It has to be there. It's the coding that projects this world we currently live in. So I'd like you to read the bible.

Walter Bosley: 0:19

We got reptilians on just outside of our frequency zone.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 0:22

Six dimensional beings, the ancient builder race. Ideas are the highest form of intelligence, and that leads you to truth and clarity. The Nephilim sightings are going to start soon. Consciousness show.

Walter Bosley: 0:33

With obvious aliens, our god fiends, will fail in huge we're just born planet. They would have needed a minimum of six feet of lead shielding in order to get through the 25,000 mile thick of NL and radiation belt. This is real. They really did fake the moon landing. The world is infinitely older than that, and I mean the world with human beings in it, skull and bones, is like one of the villains in the Legion of Doom. I'd like you to read the bible.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 0:58

The biblical flood, the tartaria mud flood, conspiracy and chill. The Nephilim sightings are going to start soon. The bull god ball I'd like you to read the bible. There's magnets in the basketballs. There was a political party, a third party called the Anti-Masonic Party. At a point in the United States, the global pandemic treaty, conspiracy and chill podcast.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:24

This one should be fun. Walter Bosley he's an author, he's a former counterintelligence and he's an expert on a lot of things, including latitude 33, ancient breakaway civilizations, houdini's death, and I mean we could sit here for days and talk about your books. So welcome, thank you, walter.

Walter Bosley: 1:41

Well, good to be here. I'm looking forward to this.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:45

Were you always like super inquisitive? Were you always interested in these kind of I guess, for lack of better term fringe topics?

Walter Bosley: 1:52

Oh yeah, the first thing I really took an interest in was UFOs, as a lot of people start at UFOs and I'm one of those classic examples of UFOs lead to other things. Right, the interest came from my dad. I was a little kid in the late 60s I was like I turned six years old in late 1969. So through the 60s, late 50s and through the 60s there were the National magazines Life Magazine, look Magazine, and they have these classic additions about flying saucers and UFOs and we had those around the house and my dad would pull them out and we'd talk about them and so I was exposed to that in his weird story about his Air Force experience in the late 50s and stuff. So you know I went in through the 70s. Close encounters of the third kind was oh wow. That became my favorite film.

Walter Bosley: 2:57

Once I got into the 80s, because of a very strange personal experience in 1979, I began to learn and realize that there was more to this UFO thing and this stuff in general than just little. You know ETs coming from other planets, that there's something else going on and my mentor got a hold of me in the early 80s, kind of started guiding me in a particular direction with this stuff and it just really blossomed from there. You know, ufos led to an interest in lay lines, to lurk currents, that kind of thing, time phenomena came after that. I was always a fan of horror films, so ghosts and spooky things were there and my uncle told me my uncle was my mentor, one of my mom's brothers. He ended up he retired with 44 years in the US national security community intelligence community.

Walter Bosley: 4:12

He told me that between my sisters and I I was the most curious one, the one that was most curious about things, particularly the strange things and some of the spooky things in our reality. He says it kind of scared them, but I was the curious one and so you know that was his impetus to be my mentor and teach me more about these things. So it really came hand in hand. It started with exposure to UFO stories but then it really blossomed from personal experiences with weird stuff which I wrote about in a tiny little mini autobiography very limited about this stuff, my experiences. Really. All that to say, all the weird stuff is connected to each other and I apologize if you hear a dog barking in the background. There's nothing I can do about that.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 5:08

It's okay, I got three of my own. I hear ya.

Walter Bosley: 5:11

So gosh since childhood.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 5:13

What you said at the end there is that all the weird things are tied together. What I was gonna say is I've listened to a little bit of your podcast appearances and I noticed that a lot of it deals with, you know, some of the early occultists and stuff like that. I was gonna ask if you think, like the early space programs or the UFO phenomenon was tied to the occultists.

Walter Bosley: 5:37

Well, there's definitely people in that world who were interested in these things, right, because you know, our space program was greatly created by Operation Paperclip. You know German scientists, right, that came here, rocket scientists, astronomers, you know those kind of guys. These were guys who, a lot of them, came from the European occult community, right, so their interests in space travel, going to other planets and stuff, these were just as big enthusiasm for them as occult interests and strange phenomena. So I think you can't really talk about the guys who and there were Americans that ran into this stuff too but you can't really talk about you know the space program without talking about people who were into the spooky, weird stuff, right. So, yeah, I do think it has gone hand in hand and maybe that's because did they suspect or did they know that somebody or something out there is actually associated with other extraordinary phenomena, with things that you know, you learn about the occult studies, you know. I do think they are, without a doubt, linked.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 7:04

I think it's all linked to Jack Parsons. He was a part of that whole occult rocketry too, I believe oh yeah. You said earlier about UFOs kind of being a lot of people's first, and it is it's almost like a gateway drug. In that regard it's like a gateway conspiracy. It was mine too. You mentioned, though, that you kind of snuck it in there, that your dad had an experience and then you had a personal experience in 1979. If you weren't mind sharing, could you elaborate on those?

Walter Bosley: 7:33

Oh, absolutely, and not to sound like I'm plugging a book every other sentence, it just so happens that we're talking about topics that I have written about. Oh, please plug away. I finally and I'll tell you the story. But my dad passed away in 2008 and finally, seven or eight years later, I decided you know what I really need to investigate his story and present it, put it all together and take a closer look than I ever have before, and that did result in a book, and that's where all the details are. It's titled Shimmering Light. But I first started hearing from my dad about Roswell what we know as Roswell, the Roswell Crash, so to speak, in 1974. Now, this was six years before the first book was published. You know the book titled the Roswell Incident by William Moore, but I was hearing, my sister and I were hearing about this from my dad, who, back then, you know what's telling us.

Walter Bosley: 8:33

Hey, you know, when he was in the Air Force, he learned that something had crashed in the desert in New Mexico in 1947. He told a story that remained consistent through the years, through the decades. That in this would have been 1958. He worked as a physiological training specialist. Okay, now, what that meant was. He trained pilots, ran them through their courses through altitude chambers, taught them how to use their life support systems like their pressure suits right, and their oxygen intakes and stuff like that and their helmets and things like that in the aircraft. And he was assigned at George Air Force Base, which is closed years ago. It's up here in the desert in Hisperia, out here in California, and he was on doing some training at Gunner Air Force Base in Montgomery, alabama, in the summer of 1958.

Walter Bosley: 9:44

And an assignment popped up that he and the other guys the other guys that were in his same specialty had to be briefed in on something. So they get on a plane, they leave for Texas. They're told that they're going to I think it was Randolph Air Force Base in Texas and somewhere over Louisiana or Mississippi, I forget which the plane takes a northern banking turn, northward turn, and an intelligence officer comes out of a forward cabin and informs them. My dad and I think two maybe three other guys, informs them that they're not going to Texas, that they are going to write Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, of course. And once they got there, what my dad said they were told was that was the details about.

Walter Bosley: 10:40

What we know is Roswell, that this craft crashed, but it wasn't from another planet, it was from another civilization that shares this planet with us, people that are underground and they have their own civilization and they want nothing to do with us. And they were told that it had happened again in Eastern Arizona. Now, he said, they were shown the bodies that were retrieved in 1947 and shown other details about it. He described them as as as human as you or I, but with little to no body hair. That was really the the main difference. They were told that they were going to be flown out to Eastern Arizona. All he ever described it as was east of Winslow and in my book, in my research, I was able, I believe, to pinpoint exactly where they were.

Walter Bosley: 11:38

He was sent out there to be part of a retrieval operation of a live crewman, a live pilot, because they were told that this civilization had contacted US authorities and, you know, inform them. Hey, we've lost one of our craft up there on the surface. The pilot is still alive and we just want to bring him back. You know we want no other contact, you know, we just want some help retrieving our guy. So my dad was sent out there on some big project to retrieve this guy. I never got from him much detail about the project itself, but he and another guy had it. You know he reports having this encounter in the underground area, tunnel areas I know this is sounding nuts.

Walter Bosley: 12:38

Okay, I'm telling you what he told me over the years. They have an encounter with some underground people who, they startle each other, there's a mishap and the guy the Air Force guy my dad's with gets killed and that's it. That's basically the story he told for years and he always insisted that they were not extraterrestrials, they were not a threat and he would get. He was pretty insistent and confident that that's what happened. Now, how he died was he was assaulted by a former employee, so he spent the last 11 months of his life in the hospitals. First 45 days he was in a coma, so he had a severe head injury and what was interesting was he started after he woke up.

Walter Bosley: 13:37

We would be talking and he would tell me more details about there was a technology transfer thing going on between us and that civilization and he described the little Air Force craft that you know that they were going to give these people and I never quite understood why they would need it when they had, you know, these other things. And it was this, just this, this vivid story of what he said he encountered. He would get emotional towards the end of the story when he would talk about the guy who got killed. He was insistent that this is something that actually happened. So after he passed, you know I'm left with this big mystery and there's more details that I'm jumping over and it's all in the book.

Walter Bosley: 14:25

But when I decide to look into it, I, you know I'm a former federal agent, a professional investigator, a PI and all that, so I'm a professional investigator. So when I went looking into a story, I knew that I was going to do it as an objective professional would do it and that's report, whatever I find, whether it supports my dad's story or not. And what I ended up with was the context of what was going on, in particular the United States Air Force and what was going on in the Southwest with secret projects, classified technology and stuff, really enlightened me to multiple possibilities to explain my dad's story, and one of them was the fact that in the early fifties, when the CIA was developing MK ultra, they introduced MK ultra to the branches of the military Army Navy Air Force. Of those branches, the United States Air Force was the most excited, most enthused about MK ultra, so much so that they started their own independent MK ultra program. Now think about that. In the seventies the CIA was forced to come clean in front of Congress to say everything. They admit what they had done under MK ultra, the bad stuff, everything. Right to this day, the United States Air Force has never had to divulge to the public where they took, how far they took, mk ultra, okay. So there you have.

Walter Bosley: 16:09

In the period that my dad's in the Air Force Okay, US Air Force psychiatric division of the aerospace medicine command, which is what my dad fell under. Okay, life support and all that stuff be at high altitude or space Falls under aerospace medicine. Right, and at the time this was before NASA. The same time, mid late 50s, the Air Force was, they weren't quiet about it, they were pursuing manned spaceflight. So my dad part of his work had to do with the development of the mercury program, which became famous once NASA took it over, and of course everybody knows about it from the book and the film the right stuff. That program, that was an Air Force program up to October of 1958 when NASA was founded and they handed Mercury over to NASA. But you know, we don't know that the Air Force didn't continue to do a classified Mercury program, and that's a whole other discussion. But my dad had a very high clearance because of what he did, being involved with at the time, the development of our first space program. And, of course, at the same time, you have MK ultra in there.

Walter Bosley: 17:28

So as I learned more about MK ultra, the flag that jumped up at me was the use of false narratives. You know, with MK ultra, you lay a false narrative in someone's psyche and this would have been done to help Secure classified information. In other words, you have a particular, you know you have particular personnel. They work on a secret project. You you want to suppress that so they don't talk about it with unauthorized people outside of work hours, right or after they leave, right. So you know, this would have been perfect to lay a false narrative in the mind, in the psyche, of someone who left a project for whatever reason.

Walter Bosley: 18:11

Okay, so now, with that being a fact, an historical fact, that that's what MK ultra was pursuing, that's what they were developing, I had to consider that the story my dad believed and told all these years About the civilization underground, about the encounter with them and stuff, might have been a false narrative implanted into his psyche by US Air Force MK ultra specialists. Okay, so there's that possibility. So then I had to ask myself, okay, well, if my dad's wild tale of an underground civilization is a false narrative and what was kind of sad about it was this was so convincing for him, right, because it was laid into his psyche that he he was absolutely convinced that this was real. Okay, and I my judgment's still out. I'm just reporting. You know what the circumstances were when I was researching this. So I had to consider okay, if my dad's wild tale is a false narrative, what else was going on that he could have been working with? That, you know, might have explained things better. And what I ended up with was really diving into what the US pursuit of manned spaceflight really entailed, and it had begun as early as the 1920s. Okay, what I found out was and this is documented fact you look at the the history of MK ultra or, I'm sorry, operation paperclip.

Walter Bosley: 19:42

A lot of people think that operation paperclip was primarily and mostly motivated for the atomic bomb. No, it was not. It actually began between Nazi German aerospace medicine scientist and American military aerospace medicine scientist. The Germans came to the Americans and said hey, I can get you dozens of other scientists in our field. If you want to get us out of Germany will gladly work for the United States. And thus operation paperclip was born. And it was born to get aerospace medicine specialists from Germany, the guys who were pursuing manned spaceflight. So the the impetus for operation paperclip was actually the pursuit of manned spaceflight. Okay, that had begun long before World War two. The research had continued through World War two. So that's why we got these German scientists. They were, we were, very serious about pursuing manned spaceflight.

Walter Bosley: 20:45

Do you have all these German scientists right after the war you know, 1947? It's two years after the end of World War two. You've got all these Advanced aircraft being developed, you know, in secret, semi-secret, that kind of thing. And they have all this money. So you have the mines, right, the right mines. You have the, the science and technology of and the resources available to them, the money, okay, the raw materials and the money, and You're, they're out there, out in what was then more of the middle of nowhere than it is today. Okay, they're in New Mexico, and so you put that all together and you have all these guys who can build this rockets and spaceships. You have the guys that can create the life support systems. You have the money, you have the secrecy.

Walter Bosley: 21:36

Well, I argue that what you've got is the, the evidence that Roswell wasn't a crash from another world. It was the crash from first American attempt at manned spaceflight. Okay, using paperclip. Scientists designed aircraft and combined US and German paperclip scientists, life support systems and such. And when you really and it's all in my book I lay out you know that when you really take a close, honest look at the details, you really see how this was much more likely than aliens from another world. Why would they keep it such a hush-hush secret?

Walter Bosley: 22:23

Well, 1947, we were two years into the Cold War, right, and paranoia was high. At all costs, you know, if we had built a craft and successfully shot these guys out into space, but they crashed on the return. But the rest of the flight was a success. You want to protect that data. You don't want those pesky Soviets Knowing that you even tried this. And remember there were Russian scientists, okay, involved with paperclip. So they had been around During the war and some of them were still around after the war and some of them were indeed, and later it was proven, documented, that they were spying for the GRU and the KGB. And what have you? So that you know Cold War, paranoia and this incredible Advancement? You know it would have been the first, at least American, and maybe the first at that time known Successful manned spaceflight. Except on return right they crashed, and such that would have set the Air Force off on a pursuit of manned spaceflight. Ah, but there you go. 1947, the United States Air Force did not exist as such. They didn't exist until later, after Roswell happened, okay, and the National Security Act was put forth.

Walter Bosley: 23:51

Now think about this World War two, which proved the ascendancy, the coming ascendancy and superiority of air power over naval power. Okay, I know the navy guys didn't like that, they still don't like to hear it, but World War two proved what colonel billy-mitchell had said prior to the war and got court-martialed over. But it proved that Air power was the future and even proving that even a world war Did not convince the US government that having an independent air force would be a good idea. However, funny how, after this weird little event that whatever crashed in New Mexico. Whatever happened there Suddenly, all of a sudden, ah, let's have an independent air force. I've always found that curious.

Walter Bosley: 24:39

So if you look at the history of the air force then the guy who was in command of the aerospace medicine division was the second to the officer running the operation paperclip show during World War two. Well, he became a general. He was dedicated to manned spaceflight. That was his objective. So the air force aerospace medicine division under his tenure was all about manned spaceflight. Okay, now this makes sense. This really makes sense. If Roswell was Actually our first attempt at spaceflight and if it succeeded to any degree, the crash not was standing, you know, it would have been something they would have wanted to continue to pursue. So it's possible that with my dad's specialty Because he had been involved with Cold War era manned spaceflight pursuit and whatever specific projects he was exposed to I propose this is entirely hypothetical, folks, this part I would argue that at the time the air force would have looked at MK ultra as a really neat tool, a really cool thing.

Walter Bosley: 25:54

And back then If you were an air force personnel and you were leaving a project and they said, look, you're not gonna have to worry about slipping up and saying the wrong thing, because we're gonna use this MK ultra stuff and we're gonna, you know, get in there and put a layer in your psyche and you won't even remember it. Okay, let's say they propose that hypothetically. Well, a lot of these guys, you know they're patriotic young guys they would have said, yeah, do it, I'm all for it because you know I'm part of something important. So I say it's entirely possible that my dad might have been very eager to you know, to be Exposed to this, for them to do this to him, to suppress Whatever it was he learned and saw that had to do with Cold War secrets and air force space secrets. Back then you have that. You have, you know, the very real Operation Paperclip, the very real US Air Force 1950s pursuit of manned spaceflight, and you have MK ultra, okay, in the mix.

Walter Bosley: 26:52

Here you got my dad telling the wild story. Well, if you read the annals of MK ultra, they would put sometimes just wild crazy stuff in In the false narrative. Now, that's a very cynical thing for them to do, because the attitude is well, if he does start talking he's gonna tell this crazy story and no one will believe him anyway, right? So there's that, and this did deeply affect his psyche. Now I was told that hypnosis, hypnosis, special hypnosis techniques were used on him. I was told this when I was on active duty, um, with the air force at right pad. I was told this in the late 90s and I was told by my mentor to pursue Getting my dad to talk more about this. That's how I would get him to talk about it over the years and and, of course, when he was in the hospital. But then there's the third thing that can't be ignored and that is Way on the other spectrum from what I've just been talking about into the wild stuff, and that is that there is a folkloric legend, a narrative that talks about a group of beings people, what have you who did come from somewhere else, doesn't say space, but somewhere else, maybe another dimension, what have you whatever centuries ago, long ago, and that they went around our world influencing so various civilizations with their technology and things like that. And then they eventually went, as the story goes, underground. And they're still with us, but they're literally underground and these are the stories of what the ancient irish called the tuhada di denan. Now, jacques Valet Started talking about the tuhada di denan in the 80s because his investigation into UFOs, which started as nuts and bolts, aliens from another world, led directly to the Tuititi de An and you know their presence in this world, on this world with us, and their influence over us and their mystique and their interdimensional quality, and my dad's story had little flashes and hints of that.

Walter Bosley: 29:16

So there I was. You know a guy who's grown up having weird experiences right, who believes in the weird but has also had a very objective type of profession. You know, on the one hand, I have to look at the facts and look at the context and go with what's more likely, but on the other hand, by 2016, when I came out with this book, I had already written a few books and my own personal research involved with those books always had some connection, always had some evidence or some pointer to this very mysterious group, the Tuititi de An. So they were in my research. Otherwise and here I couldn't ignore that there's hints of them in my dad's weird story. So what was the truth? Was he telling the truth? Did he encounter? Is there a civilization you know, inside the planet? Did he encounter, you know, people with human beings you know? Did he encounter them? Was his story true or was it a false narrative, laid with MKUltra in his psyche to protect a Cold War US Air Force program?

Walter Bosley: 30:28

I ended up having leaving the readers of the book. You have to decide for yourselves. You know I can't make that decision for the reader. I know what I would like it to be, but I also know that you know we have to be as realistic and as objective as possible. But that's, that's the weirdness of my dad's story, right there.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 30:51

That's such a unique take and such an amazing story. I was going to say you know, your dad's story isn't without precedent. You know, I believe, what's his name, phil Schneider. He was murdered, he spoke about the Dolce base and I think there's a couple of military special agent guys former military special agents, dc long and Michael Herrera, who had been exposing underground bases and what they've seen. So I'm just saying you know, maybe your dad was ahead of the game there, especially with all the new stuff that we're seeing coming out. You know, that kind of, in my mind, adds a little bit of credibility to to your dad's story. But I wanted to ask you, how did the? I've heard you talk about latitude 33. How did that stuff come onto your radar and could you talk a little bit about that? I find that stuff so fascinating.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 31:43

Sure, oh, okay, and and oh, not really quick. Please Don't mean to interrupt, I just want to say something so I don't forget and come back to it. Walter, did you say that basically, unless I'm interpreting this wrong, that potentially the Roswell crash was instead of being a you know that UFO crash of the narrative that got out, they used that as a cover up to hide the fact that that was an attempt at manned spaceflight by us.

Walter Bosley: 32:11

Yeah, Whether that had anything to do with my dad's story or not, I have become convinced that that is highly more likely. I, you know, I I have not been convinced that Roswell had anything to do with extraterrestrials for many years now between other researchers, just tearing apart that narrative, the popular narrative of that and my own research, and you know this history I've been talking about. Yeah, I haven't believed that was Roswell had anything to do with extraterrestrials for a very, very long time and I think it's very, very possible that it was the first American attempt at manned spaceflight.

Walter Bosley: 32:50

Now there's a book out there that I would recommend you look at. It's the book that the ET folks just cannot stand, but none of them actually read it. If they would, they might be enlightened. But it's titled Roswell and the Reich by Joseph Ferrell, and he does a very astute analysis of the technology that was described, of the event and the incident, and he gives you that same historical context that I'm talking about. Where he and I differ is he thinks it was an independent group of post war German scientists who attempted this flight or had this flying machine. I argue that it was the first American attempt at manned spaceflight. You know, for the reasons I present. But yeah, I do think it's more likely that than aliens.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 33:41

That is really interesting and I love all the all things Irish and Celtic related. So the twathe de Donan and something we'll have to touch back on, but definitely interested in hearing these lay line things as well. So let's get to it.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 33:54

Yeah, yeah. I knew. As soon as he mentioned Ireland, I knew, I knew you were going to be all over that and props to you guys because I don't know how you guys can say that word.

Walter Bosley: 34:06

Yes, yes, I got. I got the pronunciation in 2014 or 15 from an Irishman. Yeah, I even wrote it down. He said oh yeah, I know who you're talking about. I said how do you pronounce that? And he says to do it, To do it.

Walter Bosley: 34:24

So I heard people saying to author or all sorts of crazy things, but it's the two of them, according to an Irishman. So I figured you know he would know right. But you want to talk about Disneyland in latitude 33. Correct, oh yeah. Well, I was talking about the weird experiences that I had been having right over the years and in 1979, I had had kind of an awakening, enlightenment experience and that I woke up and everything was different and I became more aware and keen on to, you know, just strange things around me. And that's important for me to mention that because it proceeds in 1981.

Walter Bosley: 35:14

I go to Disneyland. I'm a senior in high school. I go to Disneyland with some friends. It was early in the year and you know, when you're Southern California and back then, you know, going to Disneyland, you just went all the time, you know. So you know some friends and I we go to Disneyland the middle of the week. You know we had we didn't have school or something that day and so it was a Wednesday and somewhere between 9 and 9 30, I remember it was early in the nine o'clock hour in the evening.

Walter Bosley: 35:47

We go to ride the carousel, Because you know that's what you do. You ride everything, even the goofy little things, right. So we're riding the carousel and as we're going around, I see this, this old man standing there in a black suit, white shirt, no tie. I placed him around 70 years old, close crop, white hair and white beard. You know, close, trim, white beard. And he's just standing there. If you know your Disneyland geography. He's standing on the walkway, the pathway between the Dumbo flying Dumbo ride and Mr Toad's Wild Ride, and this path will lead you back to the tea cups and to the Matterhorn, and on and so forth. So he's standing there on that pathway just watching the carousel go around. And you know, I see him as we go around and finally I don't see him. He's, he's walked on. I'm like, okay, whatever. So we get off the carousel and we take that path that I just described, when you're heading towards the Matterhorn.

Walter Bosley: 36:47

And at that time there was a bench near the, the monorail track post and the old man was sitting on that bench. I don't know why. I don't know why, but I had two of my friends with me. We walk up, you know, we're walking past him and I feel compelled to speak to him, you know, and I say hey, are you enjoying your, your time here at Disneyland, you know. And he says, oh yeah. So for the life of me I cannot remember this man's voice. This is strange, but I do remember. You know him saying oh yeah, this is my first time here, this is just so wonderful, this is such an interesting place, so much fun. Blah, blah, blah.

Walter Bosley: 37:28

And, and you know, through the conversation we learned that he was down to just like two of the lower level tickets. And at the time Disneyland was early in its days of having you could buy the passport ticket right, which was unlimited use, which is what the tickets are like now. You just buy a ticket, you get in and you can ride everything as much as you want. But in the old days, those famous a through e tickets, right, they were still using those. And you know, we, my friends and I, we got in the habit of buying the passport ticket so we could have unlimited, you know, use of the rides and stuff. And so one of the tickets he had could get him on it's a small world and we had not ridden it yet. So he said he wanted to ride small world and so we kind of walked over with him, said hey, yeah, we'll, we'll show you where it's at. It wasn't far from where he was sitting, which was odd. But he said, you know, he wanted to ride small world, but he didn't know where it was Okay, so it was literally like maybe less than 50 yards away. So we walk over there and we ride it's a small world with the old guy. He's dancing line with us and he's just in awe. He's looking around this place like he's never seen such a thing, like he's never heard of Disneyland. We ride it's a small world. We get off, we head right back to where he'd been sitting and, you know, by this time park's going to be open for, you know, about another hour and a half, maybe a couple hours. I've been there a lot. I'm going there again.

Walter Bosley: 38:58

I decided, you know, I'm going to get my passport ticket to this old guy. One of my friends had a Donald Duck pin. One of them had it, or I had it, or whatever, and so I pinned the passport onto the lapel of his jacket. You would have thought I had given him a pot of gold. He was so grateful. Oh my gosh, thank you, this is so generous. Oh, my like, yeah, sure, you know, no problem, I'll be coming back. I said, hey, with that ticket you can go ride anything else in the park as many times as you want, have fun.

Walter Bosley: 39:29

So you know, we said our goodbye. We learned that his name was Alfred. Okay, you know, I told him yeah, I'm Walter, this is so and so, and he says I'm Alfred. So Alfred walks off back towards fantasy land and turns a corner and you know, we go our way and my friends, you know, tease me. Oh, you're such a nice young man, Make the old man happy. Blah, blah, blah. And so you know off, we went and I forgot about it. I thought over the years that kind of would haunt me. You know. I'd say, you know, there's something about that old guy. I don't know why, but I just. I can't forget that experience, that encounter with the old, 70 year old guy with the white hair named Alfred.

Walter Bosley: 40:13

11 years pass and in that time I learned more about the strangeness connected with UFOs. And in the late 80s I learned about these guys who had done a map showing a correlation between intersections of lay lines, which we now call to lurk, current and UFO sightings. Okay, that there would be clusters of UFO sightings and other phenomena around the intersections of this lay line to lurk current grid, Okay, and they did a North America map of it. So I was aware of that and I had learned about the two at Adid and Anne through one of the Jacques Valais books, so it was in the mix there. Well, in 1992, by this time I'm working for the FBI and I'm in Manhattan and there's a bookstore I don't know if it's still there or not called the Coliseum bookstore.

Walter Bosley: 41:00

That was up at Columbus Circle and I used to go there on my lunch hours and I was in, you know, you know, the section of weird phenomena, UFOs, our favorite weird stuff, right. And there's this book I see, called the old straight track, and it's about lay lines. So I go oh, this, this is interesting, this is kind of like, maybe this is about what those guys who did that map are talking about, right. And I'm looking at this book, I'm going, Hmm, by Alfred Watkins, Okay. So I'm looking at the book a little bit and then I open it up or turn it, the background, whatever in the book is a photo of Alfred Watkins. And I kid you, not, guys, I'm getting goosebumps telling you about it. I got goosebumps because that photo of Alfred Watkins, the author of the old straight track. That's the man I saw at Disneyland. I'm looking at this and I'm going. I see I'm getting goosebumps right now Every time I talk about this, 11 years later.

Walter Bosley: 41:53

But yeah, you know, it's like wait a minute. According to his own book, he died in 1935. How am I seeing him in 1981? So, yeah, that blew my mind. And then, you know, for over the years, you know, I wondered what the heck? What was that about? There's something going on here, and my mentor would not tell me. It was something that he said. You know, no, we ain't going to talk about that yet. So, years past, lots of more weird stuff happens.

Walter Bosley: 42:28

But in 2006, I'm by this time, I've been friends with Greg Bishop for a couple of years and I've been sitting in as kind of an unofficial co-host on his show, Radio Mysterioso, by then. And one night we're just we wonder, you know, hey, why does the private club, why is the private club at Disneyland called Club 33? We had heard that because there were 33 corporations that sponsored it or whatever. So on it, you know, while we're on a show, we type in, you know, pull up Disneyland and the Wikipedia, and I noticed something the coordinates for Disneyland are at 33 degrees north latitude. Thus I'm first to, you know, turn on to the idea of the 33rd degree of latitude. So we start, we're talking about this, and he says you know, there's weird things that happen at that latitude. So you know we're talking about. You know, there's the pyramids, there's this, that and the other within that range, that belt that goes around the planet of weird things within you know that range and latitude 33 in particular. Isn't it interesting that Disneyland is on that latitude? Well, this intrigued me, so I dove into the research and one of the first things I found out was that when the Disney's, Walt and Roy, were serious about building Disneyland, they went to SRI, the Stanford Research Institute, back in the 50s to consult them right and to get numbers crunched. And you know, they went to a think tank to decide where should we build this?

Walter Bosley: 44:05

Well, the guy assigned to the Disneyland project in 19, this was 53 or 54, something like that was a guy named Cornelius Vanderbilt Wood, CV Wood, and he was a guy that was very much involved with psychic research and strange phenomena. And one of his very good friends was a guy named Tom Swift, who was a philanthropist in the 20th century and also a Yeti enthusiast. He had financed expeditions to go find the Abominable Snowman and he himself was also very much into psychic phenomena and strange things. So that's the kind of guy that CV Wood was. But he also was very charmed with this Disneyland idea, so much so that he quits SRI and he goes to work for the Disney's to be the engineer, the managing engineer, of the building and development of Disneyland. Now, before he leaves SRI, he comes up with they have a list of locations, possible locations they'd like to use, but he's the one who gives them the Anaheim location. He's the one that says this is where this spot of you know, it's a hectare, I think 160 acres right of citrus growth country. He goes this is where you need to build Disneyland. So like, okay, Now SRI is the kind of think tank that definitely knowing about to lure current, okay, which is a very real thing, okay, railroad engineers, telegraphy engineers have known about, had known about it, you know, like for a century by then. It's a very real thing. So extreme low frequency that runs through the planet. Okay, SRI technicians and engineers definitely are, you know, have been aware of it, and CV would had to have been and he's the one that picked the site.

Walter Bosley: 45:59

So I have an associate, a guy named Seshari, who's a friend of mine. I published his books over the years and he does to lurk analysis and so he did using topographical maps and in geomorphology and things like that, and he provided me with maps of his analysis. And he says, Walter, there's an intersection of three major to lurk current energy lines smack dab in the heart of Disneyland. I'm like no way. And he goes yeah, and it's where the carousel used to sit. In 1982. The year after I had my encounter with Alfred at Disneyland, Fantasyland was redesigned and the carousel was moved deeper in by about like 30 feet or something like that. So that's where when, when Seshari told me about this intersection of to lurk current and that the carousel used to sit right on top of it, Well, that's where, you know, our minds started cranking right and we came up with the hypothesis that the carousel was the operative mechanism that makes Disneyland itself, the entire park, a psychotronic device and that CV would had to live engineered and design this on purpose.

Walter Bosley: 47:17

Now I've written about this in a book titled Latitude 33, Key to the Kingdom. But essentially Disneyland sits in a bowl. See, they cleared off the citrus trees and they dug a bowl, kind of a a round corner triangle shaped bowl, Okay, and the outer perimeter of Disneyland, which the railroad, the Disneyland railroad, the train follows the track around this perimeter, Okay, it's. It's the, the top of essentially what is a berm that surrounds the park. Now, the idea this is hypothesis, people Okay, so all you certainty fetish guys just relax. Okay, this is hypothesis. The idea is that the carousel, as it spins and turns throughout the day, when it sat on top of this intersection, would draw up the energy for the combined energy of these three lines where they intersected. It draws up that energy and, you know, through the, the central rotation, but then also at the same time then disperses it throughout the park and then that energy flows and as it reaches the berm, it kind of is, is kicked up and comes back down into the park. In other words, it doesn't go out of the park because of the berm.

Walter Bosley: 48:37

Now, CV Wood is the guy that that oversaw this, the building of physical Disneyland. He was the one who, you know, we argue specifically designed Disneyland to do that, to work that way, to be a psychotronic device. And now in my book I go into all the wild myriad of possibilities that this energy, how it could tap into the human psyche. Now, some people automatically because they're there. They go too far with embracing all conspiracy things all the time. Disney's evil, you know, the company sucks now and they put out terrible movies and did they just do awful things in the last decades. But back then, when they were building it, CV Wood and wall CV Wood would have done this to enhance the experience of the park for the park goers in a positive way. Right, Just kind of good energy. Now, anything else would have been a side product. You got a guy who was very much deeply involved in pursuing and researching a psychic phenomena and this is the guy who designed Disneyland. And in here's this possible device model that the park could conform to.

Walter Bosley: 49:49

It's just, it's circumstantial. But oh boy, you know people again, a lot of people dismiss circumstantial evidence but that's because they watch too much TV and movies. Circumstantial evidence is a valid thing, Okay, but yes, it is circumstantial. So I look at, I looked at my experience. I thought, okay, this is insane. One of the possibilities and I present for about my experience at Disneyland was that and this is the wild one. This is the one. I doubt this is true, but boy I would love it to be true that I encountered the real Alfred Watkins, that when he was investigating the lay lines in 1927, he stepped into an intersection, stepped into a portal, found himself transported across space and time to Anaheim, California, at Disneyland, in 1981. That would explain the look of wonder that member I described to you. He just, his eyes were wide and he's like. This is the most amazing place. You know, wow, wow. You know his name's Alfred. He looks exactly like him.

Walter Bosley: 50:56

Could it be that that Disneyland, the psychotronic device engineered to be a psychotronic device, Could it be that it opens up portals to other dimensions? Now I've told you about CV Wood. I can't forget to tell you the same year I find this out in 2006. Think about this I don't find this out till 2006. But the same year that I find that Watkins book and see Alfred Watkins picture for the first time, 1992, when I'm in New York, that same year CV Wood died. So there's what we call a synchronicity, significant coincidence, meaningful coincidence, right? Naturally, as I did with my dad's story, I had to consider other possibilities. One of the other possibilities is that it was the two of the Dedenin, one of the two of the, presenting himself as Alfred Watkins. Why? Because knowing that down the road I would learn about the Watkins book okay, and then I would see a picture of him and that this would help me start putting things together and understanding that I had had indeed an extraordinary experience. Why do I also say it could have been the two of the other than the interdimensional possibility? Because they're supposed to be interdimensional adept beings.

Walter Bosley: 52:15

When you give one of the Fae folk and the two of the are considered part of the Fae or the Faeri folk. Look at the lore. I learned this later. I didn't know this in 1981. I didn't even know this in 92. When you give a gift to one of the two of the were their kind, you have passed a test of character with them. When you give something that just without them asking, you just give it out of your own generosity, they love that. Remember what I told you about this Alfred's response to me giving him my ticket. Oh my gosh, you would have thought I'd given him a pot of gold. You would have thought I'd saved his kid's life or something. It was just so generous. So when I look back on it. He reacted like one of the Fae folk, one of the two of the, according to the lore, by me giving him my ticket.

Walter Bosley: 53:10

So now they also are known to you know, because they know more and they can see more through time and space than we can. They manipulate circumstances and do things so that you will remember your encounter with them. That's possibly what this particular member of them, appearing as Alfred Watkins, might have been, was, so that I would remember, never forget, that encounter was if I was going to. But you know that I would look more and deeper into this. Another possibility is that it could have been a projection. Again, this has to do with you know, the fact that down the road I would learn about Alfred Watkins.

Walter Bosley: 53:57

When you get into this time and space, interdimensional, the experience of all that, perhaps our psyche, perhaps something our psyche is tapped into. It sees time more as a greater whole. So even though we're experiencing our lives, time in a linear, moment by moment fashion, something in our subconscious already knows what's coming. Okay, already knows that I'm going to be in that bookstore 11 years later seeing that book on Alfred Watkins. Already knows that in the late 80s I'm going to learn about lay lines and stuff. So what's happening is my subconscious is producing a Tulpa of Alfred Watkins, a meaningful, you know coincidental or synchronistic Tulpa of Alfred Watkins. I really I dove into the symbolism of the things around Disneyland and this history and I really began to see it, for it's something more than it appears to be. It used to be. I do think that in 1982, whatever, if Disneyland is indeed a psychotronic device in 1982, the redesign of fantasy land, the moving of the carousel, disengaged the device. It is my opinion that the device has not worked since the carousel was moved.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 55:19

So that's awesome. Yeah, that is crazy. I really I love where this conversation is going. I did not expect it to take that type of a turn, but some. Something interesting is the twathe de danen and the fairies and stuff is often associated with, you know, people going missing or like taking people to their realm, which is said to be underground or leading to the other world. And when you were discussing Alfred, I looked him up quickly and he's from Britain and he was, you know, writing about these lay lines and like stone sites and stone circles and like other sacred sites and stuff. And yeah, who's to say, maybe he didn't transfer into another world and, like you said, through time and space and this psychic connection you had made with the book and this information and who knows, like that's, yeah, that's some high-level speculation on your end, but I really love it.

Walter Bosley: 56:16

Yeah, it's something that I, you know. I believe I'm presenting all the possibilities and I do offer my opinion on, well, this one. This one's pretty wild. It might not be the likely one, but you're gonna hear it, because there are certain circumstances in this story that point to that, just like there are certain circumstances that point to the other options, right and, and you have to present them. And really, as an investigator, that's kind of what you do. You know you go out and you investigate and in your report you report what you find okay and you can offer a little opinion. You know, for some, you know possible contextual opinion, that kind of thing, but still you're presenting everything you find okay, whether the recipient of that report likes it or not.

Walter Bosley: 57:06

And you know my time as a federal agent, you know you, you learn to get, you learn to have no problem with that presenting things that you know people may or may not like. I want them. I mean that's one of my favorite phrases. Whether you like it or not, you know something's there and you got to deal with it. You can't just dismiss what's inconvenient. And and that's one of the complaints we've heard about the ET hypothesis, folks in ufology is too many times. You know we're learning how many times that there was the other weird interdimensional right, crypto, terrestrial, you know other strange stuff that these ET focused UFO investigators. They didn't want to present that. Okay, they didn't want to deal with that, all they wanted to do was present whatever backed up their hypothesis. And we know for a fact that they've done this with ufology for for decades just leaving out, conveniently leaving out the stuff that points to the fairy folk, the interdimensionals, or, as Ann Strieber, you know, observed the dead, and I highly recommend Joshua Cushan's book. The ecology of souls is an introduction to what the dead and the land of the dead have to do with UFOs. You know, like John Keele said, we we live on a haunted planet, I. But I do think ETs are real, I do think they have come here, I think they still come here. That's the beauty of all the stuff. I think all of it. But it, it, it depends on what the answer is, depends on, you know, case by case basis. You know ET doesn't there's.

Walter Bosley: 58:45

Et does not explain a majority, not anywhere near. Not anywhere near a majority. It explains a sliver of a minority of legitimate UFO reports. It mostly classified human technology, I think, explains 90 or more percent of them. But you know, but. But you can't ignore these other things.

Walter Bosley: 59:09

For a pet hypothesis, I love my dad's story that there's an underground civilization. That's the one that you know. If I had my druthers, that was the one I would have liked to have found the strongest evidence for. But I'm an honest broker and the reason I present in my book, shimmering light, what I do on his thing is because, hey, you have to. It's part of the historical context. It probably very likely explains, you know some of the mystery and some of you know what my dad was going through and why he thought what he did. Same thing with Disneyland, this Disneyland thing.

Walter Bosley: 59:46

You know you have to present what there is and let the reader decide. You know, I know there's some readers out there that basically they want to be told what to think. I don't do that, my readers. They got to do their homework, they got to make up their own decisions, their own conclusions. I mean, and you know I, I presented all. I will offer what I lean towards, what I hope. It is, what I think it more likely will be. But I I never tell anyone what to believe themselves, because here's what I've learned about the strange phenomenon phenomena is, the best way to learn about it is when you experience it and it's out there. It's out there for everyone and anyone to experience, but you have to be honest with yourself, you have to be honest with it and you kind of have to let it happen, naturally, because it will come to you and probably you know, I think this stuff comes to all of us, but many people choose to ignore it right or turn their back on it because it's scary. It can be scary, it's the unknown.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:00:55

I can't think of a better way to line this conversation down. You kind of brought it full circle there. Man, this went by quick. I got some reading to do. Let me tell you, I got some books to buy oh cool, yeah, it's.

Walter Bosley: 1:01:08

You know, definitely check out Joshua Cushen's the Ecology of Souls. By all means, don't, don't miss that one. Jacques Valet's best work, in my opinion, is this stuff up to the early 90s, because that's where he gets into some of the things I've talked about. You know these alternatives to the ET hypothesis.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:01:30

I've read the passport to McGonagall classic. Yeah, very good, very good book but read the.

Walter Bosley: 1:01:37

What is it? It's dimensions, revelations, confrontations. It's kind of a trilogy, those late 80s, in the early 90s. Read those two, you know. Valet said that there is a, an intelligence sharing this planet with us, and they've been with us for a very long time so what I think too.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:01:59

As I said, I think I think slowly, or I don't know if it'll be there in in our lifetime you know if if we'll really know what's going on. But I think I think my kids will hopefully know what is really going on, you know, I think I think we're working our way in the right direction, slowly, but I think we're going the right way at the very least in space, because the way we're venturing out now and it's just gonna keep increasing that, that open contact, I think it is, I think, inevitable in the short term, you know.

Walter Bosley: 1:02:32

So, yeah, I think you're right, maybe in our lifetimes, maybe in mine, you know, I know I'm older than you guys maybe in mine, you know, that might even, because I have no doubt that they're out there and it'll and that'll be a very cool day, right when the announcement comes hey, guess what? There's people from another planet and they're here and you know, wow, you know we suspected it all along, we've had reason to believe it all along. You know that'll be a very, very cool, great day. But there's all these other things too.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:03:03

Yeah, so long as we don't all get hit with the MK ultra version of it.

Walter Bosley: 1:03:07

Yeah for me these other things, the, the ultra-dimensional's, ultra terrestrial's are, that's far more fascinating to me than extraterrestrial did you have anything that you'd like to to plug before we?

Walter Bosley: 1:03:21

I mentioned my book shimmering light. That's the book I did investigation about my dad's story and experience and all this stuff with Roswell in the Air Force and MK ultra and stuff. And there's also latitude 33 to the kingdom, my book on my investigation analysis of the Disneyland thing, and these can be found at Walter Bosleycom in the shop tab or at Lulucom LULUcom friend, on demand, but I either one will get you to the same, the same books, and I have a weekly live stream at the Walter Bosley channel at YouTube. So go check that out the Walter Bosley channel at YouTube awesome, very good.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:04:06

Well, yeah, we appreciate it any. Any last words, tom.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:04:11

Thank you, man. That was a great conversation. Like I said, I was was not expecting the Twatla de Don and Twiston and I knew this was gonna be an interesting episode, but damn, that exceeded expectations well, I'll leave you if it gets you back.

Walter Bosley: 1:04:23

I'll leave your listeners with this. I've written, I think, like 15. I look at the count nonfiction books that you know each time I go into it and they're on different topics. Okay, that when I go into them I never thought they were related. Every single one, the two of the D&N, have popped up. So I have my own little personal mystery going on with them, why they keep popping up in my research, whether it's about Disneyland, whether it's about Roswell, whether it's about serial murder in Southern California in 1915 you know things that you do whether it's about explorers in South America, the two of the D&N somewhere along the way and research. For each one of these books they pop up their evidence of them, their presence, their, their imprint.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:05:16

So are you Irish, walter?

Walter Bosley: 1:05:18

I'm my dad on his mother's side. I'm I'm I'm 70, according to I had my DNA done and I'm 70% Scots Irish.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:05:28

Oh, have you been to Ireland? Not yet. Oh man, that's going to be an interesting journey. I was just there in October and I visited plenty of the megalithic sites and like holy sites and it was, it was something else.

Walter Bosley: 1:05:41

So yeah, I'll bet, I'll bet. I can't wait to get there. It's Scotland too. Oh yeah, awesome.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:05:47

We'd love to have you back on the show. Maybe just I can't. I can't pronounce the word, but maybe just to go like do a deep dive on on the Irish things.

Walter Bosley: 1:05:56

You were to do it, the two of them, two to day to day. Yeah, just let me know, I'd be glad to come back. This was fun guys, so what is it?

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:06:07

Do the data do?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:06:10

T'waha de Danum or T'watha de Danum, and it means tribe of Danu.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:06:17

Really, yeah, for those who don't know what that is like, I don't think we really are, walter, really disgusted in depth of who they are. It's a mythological race from Irish mythology and they're kind of like a, you know, like a fairy race, an angelic race, a fallen angel race, like they're said to have, you know, taught a lot and defeated the previous inhabitants of Ireland and like they fought off these demon race called the Fomorians and a lot of like magic and tarot and you know occult stuff is accredited to them and yeah, there's just a lot of insane crossover with them and Anunnaki and other you know stories of heavily beings and a lot of fairy stuff has to do with like missing 411 and just tons of folklore surrounding. You know fairies in Ireland and shit. And yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't really expecting it to go there, but I'm glad it did and I really can't wait to talk to him more about that, because he said all of his books somehow come up with the T'watha de Danum and so that is very interesting, like.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:07:31

I said that's my shit, right there.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:07:33

Oh yeah, that'll be a fun one. We'll have him back. Just to you know, just to go deep on that, just to you know, fucking laid all out there. You mentioned 411. I love the missing 411 shit dude. I would love to have David Politis on here. I think he does a lot of really good work. I've seen all the movies. I've read two of the books. He doesn't come out and actually say that he believes it's Bigfoot, but he, if you read between the lines and you put two and two together, he pretty much thinks a lot of it is Bigfoot. However, in his latest work he kind of is leaning towards some of these being UFOs, abductions and shit like that. So yeah, David Politis, missing 411. That's good shit. But you really like the Hure Haru today, the Hure, Hure, Hure, Hure.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:08:30

Maybe you should just call him the tribe of Danu.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:08:32

Yeah, yeah, Book him, Danu. Let me ask how did you start getting interested in all the Irish mythology and druidism and shit like that?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:08:46

Well, I think I'm just going to have to credit it to a touch of the Tizm special interest obsession. But honestly, I don't know. I just I found it interesting because I'm very Irish ancestrally. I know when I was younger I used to think that it was like corny, like I thought that Irish stuff was like lame and corny and I honestly was like a little embarrassed of it.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:09:11

When I was younger I was like why couldn't I have been, like you know, more Polish or like Mexican or something or like something that other people and like my friends were? But I also, when I was younger, I was surprised to find out that not everyone was like a little Irish. I thought everyone just from, like you know, growing up with family and family friends in the Chicago area where there's a lot of Irish people, like, once I found out like people weren't all Irish. I thought, unless you were, like, you know, like Asian or black or Mexican or something, that you had some Irish in you. So that was like a culture shock for me when I was like seven years old and found out not everyone was Irish.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:09:45

But even black people. It can be Irish Like well hell.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:09:48

Yeah, there is, like, as I've done, the deep dives and stuff there's. There's actually a lot of crossover with black history in Ireland, whether you are subscribing to the belief that there was black people live in there and they were either driven out or migrated out or, just like in the Americas, the Irish and black people being treated very similarly when they were first coming over here and just discriminated against. But look at the Shaquille O'Neal.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:10:17

Oh yeah, man, there's. There's a lot of black people with Welsh and Irish last names too, and people will be like, no, that's just because they took on their slave owners names, but that's not true at all, because we're not. We're not slave owners. The Irish and Welsh were slave class with them, so that makes no sense. The thing is, though, I eventually, you know, got very into it over time as I grew up and matured a little bit, and it all started to grow on me like the warrior culture. The mythology is fucking nuts dude, like the black Irish.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:10:50

Oh, yeah, for sure. Like in over time I've just consumed anything and everything Irish and Celtic related obsessively as I can, and even still now, like I'm trying to learn, like my bookshelf is full of, you know, like Celtic mythology, irish history and myths, the Celts, ancient Celtic warriors, just like shit like that. Those are. That's like my special interest. And yeah, I have a couple of guests to waiting to get on here. Two of them are gentlemen from Ireland who I've had some conversations with and share a lot of interests with, so their jolly accent will fall nicely on their listeners ears, I'm sure.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:11:33

Two quick questions One, do you consider listening to a book the same as reading it? And two, do you think that we should maybe like every episode or every once a month episode or something like that? Do you think we should do like a book, like a book recommendation?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:11:55

Yeah, I think that would be really cool actually, and like one a month or something.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:11:59

I think that reading offers a different experience than listening, but I think I do better with listening. Me too, me too. Yeah, you can multitask. It's easier to pause and pick up where you were when you're listening to it. For me, although, I like the imaginative aspect of actually sitting there and reading it, and I've had more profound, you know, like experiences while reading at times and like I retained the info and it's almost like more synchronistic, like I'll be on the right page and like the right thing will jump out at me when I'm reading it. So I like both, for sure. But, yeah, I would say I'd probably listen more often to things, whether it's a lecture or a podcast or a book. But yeah, they're both good.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:12:44

I prefer to listen because I feel like I feel like that's just a better way that that I learn. The only thing that I don't like about that is like I subscribe to Audible, okay, so I get one month, I get one credit, and then also I can, you know, purchase the books at a discounted rate. But what am I really buying? Because I don't have anything physical at the end of the day, you know. So that's true.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:13:11

That's the only thing that I don't like. Like I have a great library of books on my Audible but I don't have anything tangible in my hands, like you know what I mean. So I do miss that aspect of books. I, like you know feeling it, the actual, like you said, sitting down with a physical book. But I'm guilty. I listen to them. What can I do?

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:13:34

Yeah, that is kind of annoying. And I have some books and my you know lost library of digital audio books somewhere that I, you know, can't sign into because I forgot the password or my Apple or whatever over time or I can't read down on it this or that. But yeah, there's definitely something to be said about holding the book and having the possession. But I will say I feel like I'm pretty good at retaining info. I don't know if I I can read it or hear it and it kind of feels the same to me.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:14:03

But I've realized I kind of have somewhat of a freakish memory, to be honest, like I also thought that that was normal growing up and I can literally remember things from like preschool and even younger, and like the stupidest details, like interactions I had with a teacher, like a classmate, or like what I was wearing that day, what this person was wearing, like stupid comments and passing by or things I observed, literally just like moves that I learned in wrestling when I was seven years old and matches and stuff from high school and just stupid stuff that I have no business remembering and for someone that started getting hit in the head pretty young and continued to take hits and has taken no shortage of psychoactive substances in.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:14:49

I'm pretty impressed with my ability to remember, but I will say things kind of started to become a little blurry around puberty. When you just go boner brain, that's kind of when things aren't as vivid to me. But I can remember from probably like age two or three through like yeah, I don't know, like seventh grade. Once you start getting like ultra fucking horny, then it's a little bit of a drop off. For the most part my memory and my retention is pretty freaking, above average, I would say.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:15:22

Oh, my brain blood is in my boner.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:15:27

I mean at that age, that's. That's what most of the mental capacity is used for.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:15:31

Yeah, right, Well, shit, everybody should follow us, like us, do all that good shit. Become one of the first members of the CNC syndicate on Patreon. Five star reviews, all that good shit and what else.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:15:47

Stay away from the underground tunnels. Yes, stay away from the psyops, stay away from the doodada doos. Yeah, depending on what we think about the doodada do the two of the day down, and depending on what their identity really is, I don't know. I'm a little worried about our just previous guest. If he does go to Ireland, that he's going to go missing because he seems to be intimately connected to the fairy folk.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:16:13

Yes, hey. What's your favorite black Sabbath song? Oh man.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:16:18

Oh, man and fairies wear boots. That's well. Yeah, shit, it seemed like you were setting me up for that one.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:16:25

Yes, I was.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:16:27

I'm going to go with Lord of this world. How about you?

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:16:34

Oh, children of the grave.

"Headhunter" Higgins: 1:16:37

Both on Master of Reality Love it.

"Sawbuck" Mike: 1:16:39

Revolution. Yeah, that's definitely children of the grave. All right, stay away from pedophiles.